[GoldStone]

I thought it was possible to journal and sell in one move, as a broker-assisted transaction with a higher fee, without waiting for the original buy to settle.

Yes it's possible, but that's an inferior option compared to instant online gambitting that is currently possible in the registered accounts.

 

[humble_pie]

I thought it was possible to journal and sell in one move, as a broker-assisted transaction with a higher fee, without waiting for the original buy to settle.

you are speaking about the TD cash & margin accounts? yes, of course it's always been possible to sell the sell side in an instant gambit trade. By phoning a live representative. Which means the higher representative phone commish.

this platform is likely to prevail for the new RRSP/TFSA dual-currency platform. Historically the TD software has always permitted instant gambit trading in registered accounts, but they told me that this feature will disappear in the new platform that will be rolled out in a couple months.

i don't believe the original gambit possibility in RRSP at the big green was ever deliberate. I believe it was an accidental by-product feature of the software. Some code or loop had to be left open for the RRSP platform to work on the ISM mainframe. Certainly the green nobs never intended this feature to be a positive benefit that their registered clients could & would use to their advantage.

i remember first explaining years ago to astonished green reps that yes, virginia, arbitrage trading was indeed succeeding perfectly in RRSP accounts at the TD. It was obvious that not even the highly experienced trading reps then serving on the PA desks had ever heard about this feature, let alone received any training on this feature.

 

[avrex]

I thought it was possible to journal and sell in one move, as a broker-assisted transaction with a higher fee, without waiting for the original buy to settle.

You are correct. However that phone call will cost $43.

 

[humble_pie]

You are correct. However that phone call will cost $43.

wondering why would it cost only $43? i thought it would cost either the full licensed rep phone commish or else the minimum $43, whichever amount shall be greater ...

 

[humble_pie]

another monkey wrench: it's remotely possible that the TD will not permit any instant currency gambit trading in the new dual-currency RRSP/TFSA accounts, either online or via phone call to licensed rep.

why not? this issue will have to do with how their new mainframe has been built plus how they view their responsibilities as trustees for registered accounts. Questrade appears to have the same delicate concerns.

in an agent-handled gambit trade in cash or margin accounts at the big green right now, the sell side of a gambit trade does *not* result from an instant journal of the stock. The just-bought stock stays in the account where it has been bought until settlement occurs, 3 days afterwards.

what does happen is that the licensed rep who executes the gambit sell side overrides the system blockage for the sell order, then sends a wire to TD's credit department advising them that the peculiar-looking sell he has just carried out - which looks like a blockable naked short - is actually OK because the client has just bought the stock in the opposite currency account.

this wire makes credit happy for the time being. Once settlement occurs 3 days later, the actual journaling takes place. However, there is a position that is akin to a naked short position, which obtains for the entire 3 days of the wait period. It is not exactly a naked short position, but it is an extremely close kin.

the reason Questrade won't do this in registered accounts is that, as trustees, they don't want to be responsible for a 3-day naked short position.

i am wondering if the big green might have the same concern?

 

[lonewolf]

^ sounds like a plan, I think I'll try driving to work in reverse tomorrow as well. Maybe that will reset my Chakras.

Synergy Robinhood in the US recently announced zero commission & zero minimum balance trading accounts. This type of action by Robinhood & TD regarding US accounts would most likely be @ tops. In the future if bans are placed on trading options & futures, CNBC goes under then look to buy the market.

 

[larry81]

you are speaking about the TD cash & margin accounts? yes, of course it's always been possible to sell the sell side in an instant gambit trade. By phoning a live representative. Which means the higher representative phone commish.

Not it you ask nicely the rep to apply the Web commish !

 

[gardner]

you are speaking about the TD cash & margin accounts? yes, of course it's always been possible to sell the sell side in an instant gambit trade. By phoning a live representative.

My point being -- is there any reason to believe that the rules would be any different for a registered account pair? As several others have mentioned, they generally do not charge full commission for Gambit trades. It's not a perfect solution because the exact commission is a hit-or-miss proposition, and they sometimes seem to balk at the whole transaction, depending on who answers.

 

[humble_pie]

Not it you ask nicely the rep to apply the Web commish !

larry u are right, although this is a recent change!

that was former info about paying the agent commish for the sell side. It was true in the past, but the update seems to be that TD will now do instant currency gambit sell orders for a low $9.99 web commish.

a very sweet TD rep recently told me that there is no formal protocol, the TD agents are instructed to handle gambit sell side requests on a case-by-case basis, but she herself is honouring nearly all requests for low gambit web commissions as a client service.

nice! we shall have to see what happens when they roll out those dual-currency RRSPs & TFSAs in a month or 2.

 

[maxandrelax]

Thanks guys, gals and especially HP for the massively informative threads on TD's USD RRSP issues and gambits over the past few years. I have learned a tonne.

 

[humble_pie]

... they generally do not charge full commission for Gambit trades. It's not a perfect solution because the exact commission is a hit-or-miss proposition, and they sometimes seem to balk at the whole transaction, depending on who answers.

here's an older article (2011 yikes!) offering details about how to do an efficient phone gambit in TD non-registered accounts.

it was written at a moment just after TD had agreed to again accept gambit trades. For a nasty period during 2011, 2 of the TD call centres had instructions from management to refuse gambit sell orders. The situation was exceptionally messy & the result was a noticeable number of ugly fights between TD clients & reps being written up in the internet. Because - fin du compte - the big green had no legal right to block arbitrage trades, which is what gambit trades really are.

http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/?s=instant+gambit+TD

if you are a good editor, you will be able to detect from the writing style that i'm the anonymous contributor of the text in black. CC added the blue comments, which greatly round out the article.

if my article seems sympathetic to the TD, that's only because there were so many bad fights going on over gambit trading at that time, in 2011. I was hoping to explain to TD investors what were the difficulties that the licensed reps were facing on their side, so that everybody could end up doing the dance steps happily together.

even today, i stick by my suggestion to prepare the online buy order but do not send it. Line up a TD representative on the phone & make sure he or she understands exactly what you are doing.

after that, the dance pas-de-deux will ensue. You send online buy order, it's filled, the rep sees, he releases the sell order on the opposite exchange which he has already prepared. Boom, the action is all done in 60 seconds.

a client who asks the TD rep to first do the buying for him, then do the selling for him, is building in a delay. Things go better when the gambit trader controls the timing, imho.

 

[0xCC]

I just saw the notification of this when I logged in today. I was pretty much set on reviewing my account in the new year to see how much not having the US$ separated out in registered accounts was costing me. I do have the worries about the lack of gambit (or at least more complicated gambit) but that is probably more than compensated for by having the US$ dividends (and DRIPs) not getting dinged by hidden forex fees every quarter...

 

[My Own Advisor]

You did a great job with the article HP...I talked to CC about that over dinner one night, he was thankful of your contributions to the article.

I wonder if Big Green with have USD $$ for LIRAs at some point? The announcement didn't specify, and I'm thinking that's a "no" for now.

 

[humble_pie]

I talked to CC about that over dinner one night

actually it was nothing, i knew CC was preparing the article so i threw together some scribbles in case he might want to use them in some manner. I expected him to paraphrase, pick & choose, rewrite the scribbles. I was astonished when they appeared word-for-word.

but you can see how CC's contributions enhanced the scribbles & really turned the piece into an article that hung together solidly.

 

[My Own Advisor]

I see him every now and again, he's one smart guy

And yes, the article was solid and is referenced by many!

 

[JohnnyD]

I spoke with a TD rep this morning and they confirmed that the autowash feature will no longer be possible once the USD RRSP comes into effect. I hope they figure out a way to make it possible without too many headaches. I don't want to wait a couple of years for them to come up with a solution.

 

[GoldStone]

I spoke with a TD rep this morning and they confirmed that the autowash feature will no longer be possible once the USD RRSP comes into effect. I hope they figure out a way to make it possible without too many headaches. I don't want to wait a couple of years for them to come up with a solution.

Autowash isn't necessary in the USD account. You can simply hold USD cash.

 

[JohnnyD]

Autowash isn't necessary in the USD account. You can simply hold USD cash.

But how would I best convert my funds into USD without being dinged by forex fees? Is there a better way to convert money?

 

[GoldStone]

But how would I best convert my funds into USD without being dinged by forex fees? Is there a better way to convert money?

You would still use Norbert's Gambit, except now it doesn't require autowash.

Old single currency RRSP:

Buy an interlisted stock on the Canadian exchange. Sell it on the US exchange. Autowash kicks in: it puts the proceeds of the US sale in the USD money market fund.


New dual currency RRSP:

Buy an interlisted stock on the Canadian exchange, in the Canadian sub-account. Journal it over to the US sub-account. Sell it there on the US exchange. The proceeds remain in the US sub-account.

 

[My Own Advisor]

Yup, should still work!