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If you can pick off the inefficiencies but just because it is trading below par does NOT make it a bargain. It may never be called (at par) and thus it may never trade at par again. It will only be called (at par) if GoC5 bond yields rise so much that the dividend yield no longer is worthwhile for Canaccord to pay. That is for the investor to decide whether holding this one makes sense.
I agree with you in that this is a risk. However you can still generate cap gains even if it isn't called at par (i.e. buy at 11 sell at 14)
 
I have used rate re-set preferreds in the last year as a hedge against rising rates. I borrowed on an LOC to invest, and put a portion into rate reset preferreds. Rates have risen and the interest on my LOC is now higher, but the value of those rate resets is up about 40%, more than offsetting any impact from higher rates.

You have to choose carefully, but the reward is there.
 
You have got to get the bond yield curve right to win (or to at least win early). Early adopters circa 3 or so years ago thought the bond yield curve would be going up too. It went down even further before it started going back up.. delaying any gratification, some of which the likes of LTR and myself are still not quite above water on some of them. Gotta get it right and/or have patience.
 
Since they have no maturity and hence the name perpetual, the share price is quite sensitive to interest rates. As interest rates rise, the share price will drop. With infinite maturity, the duration is considered the inverse of the yield. (i.e. 6% yield = 16.6). If you just want them for income only, they're hard to beat. I notice the coupon is rather high on (PWF.PR.E) and it's post call date, so I'm surprised why it hasn't been called, but what do I know.

ltr
First call of PWF.PR.E was possible in April this year. That would have been at $26.00. Several more call dates at above par until, 2021, I think? Many more perpetuals of similar caliber with similar yields. Problem is that they are not very liquid, so hard to buy. I just tried to buy CU.PR.H with first call in 2020. But no trading for several days, so not likely to close.

So many possibilities, but found this site that has what looks like a reasonable selection:

http://www.investingforme.com/data-room/perpetual-preferred-shares

Not going overboard with this, but aim is to have about equal amounts of ZPR, PWF.PR.E and one other perpetual. Plus much more already in split prefereds. Total about 9% of overall portfolio. Overall yielding about 5.5% in dividend income in taxable accounts. No problem if called at Par or better.
 
First call of PWF.PR.E was possible in April this year. That would have been at $26.00. Several more call dates at above par until, 2021, I think?
We must be looking at a different PWF.PR.E, because if I look at Power Financial Website, it says it's past call in 2013?

in part:

PWF.PR.E

First Preferred Shares Series D

The 5.50% Non-Cumulative First Preferred Shares, Series D are entitled to fixed non-cumulative preferential cash dividends at a rate equal to $1.375 per share per annum, payable on the last day of January, April, July and October in each year.

On and after January 31, 2013, the Corporation may redeem for cash the Series D First Preferred Shares in whole or in part for $25.00 per share together with all declared and unpaid dividends to, but excluding, the date of redemption.


ltr
 
We must be looking at a different PWF.PR.E,
ltr
Well you are right. I read your initial post about calls while doing some late night reading on my BB Playbook! I did a search on it but somehow got to a supplementary prospectus for a different PWF issue, also 5.5% (Series R, I think).

In any event, I originally bought that issue below par and have collected the dividends for quite a few years, so a call at par wouldn't be a problem!

My buy on CU.PR.H did fill. Maybe you could tell me if that has any pitfalls! I realize they are "seconds"!

My pfd buying is now over :)
 
Well you are right. I read your initial post about calls while doing some late night reading on my BB Playbook! I did a search on it but somehow got to a supplementary prospectus for a different PWF issue, also 5.5% (Series R, I think).

In any event, I originally bought that issue below par and have collected the dividends for quite a few years, so a call at par wouldn't be a problem!

My buy on CU.PR.H did fill. Maybe you could tell me if that has any pitfalls!......
Yeah, so now you won't be surprised if they redeem PWF.PR.E on you one of these days. That threat tends to hold it around PAR, so as long as you keep getting that nice dividend, you're good. If it appreciated some day above PAR far enough because of some market anomalies, you can decide if you'd rather take the capital gain and move on rather than the company redeeming it.

The CU.PR.H looks fine. It has a decent time until they would ever call it, so you can enjoy the high dividend. Credit rating is good. Your only concern would be share price declining because of interest rate increases, but you've said your concern is income, so you're good.

I own CIU.PR.C, which is a low spread rate reset that has a pitiful 2.24% coupon for the next 4 years, compared to your nice perpetual 5.25% coupon. You can see in the little graph the striking difference these two different preferred share types have experienced this year as interest rates rose. The rate reset pays terrible, but has enjoyed capital appreciation, while the perpetual has lost some capital, but enjoys healthy quarterly payments. I'm still not above water with CIU.PR.C - I'm hopeful. :redface-new:

View attachment 16306

ltr
 
Yeah, so now you won't be surprised if they redeem PWF.PR.E on you one of these days.

ltr
Ok thanks for input ltr. To be honest, I don't worry much about calls. Nothing I can do about them anyway. Every now and then, I see a chunk of money in our RRIFs and find another bond has been called. Just buy something else and move on.
 
Haven't looked at this thread for a while, but since my last post rate-reset have been my best performer, benefiting from both the increase in the GOC5 rate and narrowing credit spreads. Although Leslie's perspective was complete opposite of mine, I'm glad we had our discussions as it made me look more into resets which affirmed my position and made me buy more....much more and I'm thankful for that. The trick now is developing a plan to unload them, since many of these are approaching par, shifting the risk profile against the investor.
 
Canadian preferred shares and StockCharts

Several CMF members have referenced StockCharts. What format is required to enter a Canadain preferred share (on the Toronto exchange) into StockCharts ? Say, BMO PR. W for example.
Thanks in advance.
 
Sseveral CMF members have referenced StockCharts. What format is required to enter a Canadian preferred share (on the Toronto exchange) into StockCharts ? Say, BMO PR. W for example.
Thanks in advance.
Stock Charts hold data on very few preferred shares from Canada.

If it were available it would be BMO/PW.TO, but it isn't there.

To find what's available, use the form fill at the top of the page. If you enter POW for example, you will see POW.TO and POW/PB.TO

ltr
 
I bought 14k of PWF-PR-E with a yield of 7.03. I figure the interest rate huikes are behind us and if we get a recession in 2024 we will see some cuts. This is perpetual I figure this is the right time to buy this type of share. I am treating it as a FI with a good chance for some capital gain.
 
I bought 14k of PWF-PR-E with a yield of 7.03. I figure the interest rate huikes are behind us and if we get a recession in 2024 we will see some cuts. This is perpetual I figure this is the right time to buy this type of share. I am treating it as a FI with a good chance for some capital gain.
The assumption of rate plateau is fair but pwf.pr.p is 12.37. this is multiplier of 2x (25 / 12.37). The spread becomes 3.2 (1.6 x multiplier).

To break even with your 7% perpetual it would need goc 5yr to go to 1.9%. Are you that sure that 5 yr rates will be at 2% perpetually? Especially when 30 year bond is currently 4%.

For me a rate reset or floater based off 5yr is the way to go. Should be at least as good as the perpetual in any likely rate environment and much more upside potential. If rates stay the same as they are now for pwf.pr.p it will yield 3.2 + (4.3 x 2) = 11.8%
 
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