I remember looking closely at this 7 years ago for my daughter when she was going into kindergarten in calgary as there was a pretty fancy private school but had a few concerns

1) it was like 20k per year tuition. Others were cheaper
2) they were marketing an unstructured program that would make it difficult for the kid to go back to regular program
3) i dont really have any way to tell if it was the school that made my daughter "smarter" or she would have done just as well in public school
4) does grades k-12 really matter as much as university? Shouldnt i spend more money on that instead?

The owner of the school gave a masterful pitch. He started out a little awkward and then exploded into a passionate appeal that played with my sense of competition to have my child qualify, my fears about the kid not being able to learn or getting the kid into proper university, and wanting to pay whatever i can to give my child some kind of advantage in life.

In the end despite a very compelling pitch after taking a little while to think things over it just didnt make sense. I couldnt ahake the feeling that this was some kind of scam and the risk of wasting my money outweighed the possible benefits considering i have no real way to measure if i made the right decision and would be difficult to change.
Was also a possibility that i would have a second kid and 20k per year x 2 kids x 12 years is a huge amount of money.

 

I remember looking closely at this 7 years ago for my daughter when she was going into kindergarten in calgary as there was a pretty fancy private school but had a few concerns

1) it was like 20k per year tuition. Others were cheaper
2) they were marketing an unstructured program that would make it difficult for the kid to go back to regular program
3) i dont really have any way to tell if it was the school that made my daughter "smarter" or she would have done just as well in public school
4) does grades k-12 really matter as much as university? Shouldnt i spend more money on that instead?

The owner of the school gave a masterful pitch. He started out a little awkward and then exploded into a passionate appeal that played with my sense of competition to have my child qualify, my fears about the kid not being able to learn or getting the kid into proper university, and wanting to pay whatever i can to give my child some kind of advantage in life.

In the end despite a very compelling pitch after taking a little while to think things over it just didnt make sense. I couldnt ahake the feeling that this was some kind of scam and the risk of wasting my money outweighed the possible benefits considering i have no real way to measure if i made the right decision and would be difficult to change.
Was also a possibility that i would have a second kid and 20k per year x 2 kids x 12 years is a huge amount of money.

You can pay for a lot of tutoring for 1/2 million dollars

 

Most "private" schools around here are either religious or ethnic based. I am not convinced that is the criteria for a better education.

 

In my opinion, and it is just my opinion, you want to teach your child manners and other behavioral lessons, at a very young age, so that they are ready to settle down, listen, and do as instructed. Without that your child will fall behind for sure.

With that, however, your child's IQ, something they are born with, will probably determine their ability to learn as measured by the average level of learning that is going on in each class. I suspect most schools monitor the average level of learning and how often bell curves are needed and relate low averages and bell curve use, as a problem related to the teacher and make attempts to address that quickly. If that is not the case, the problem is with the IQ of the child and that really is the luck of the draw, if you ask me. You get the IQ you are born with. IQ being how quickly you can learn and how complex the problems are that you can solve. Some children also have ADHD (by the way, so do the adults. It is not curable) and may need medications. That is an area I don't understand well, but have seen the symptoms many times, in both children and adults. It certainly gets in the way of success, that is for sure.

In any case, if your child has problems learning it is unlikely to be the result of the school. Many want to blame the school, since the alternative is very difficult to accept. 50% of all humans will have an IQ below average. It is like driving where everyone believes they are above average, but the math is still the math. 50% are not. We need to accept our IQ level and figure out how to suceed with what we are born with, then simply making excuses and changing schools and doing other denial things that will have very little benefit IMO.

 

I get your point and generally agree but intelligence is more complex and multi faceted than a single IQ. You must have seen yourself when talking with otherwise highly intelligent people about finance how they blank out...

So one of the arguments the school made is that they let the high IQ students run at whatever pace they can handle instead of dictated by age. For anyone not keeping up it will be kind of a waste. I think this means its designed for highly self motivated kids and not necessarily an issue with intelligence. I think there is some value to providing a place where kids are not artificially limited to a grade but how can you really guess at kindergarten age how your child will adapt to that.

From my personal experience I feel like I didn't really take off until later in university and up until then I did well enough but not really that interested in school. Now I am obsessed with learning new things. I do have a nagging feeling that if I had the opportunity to be pushed more earlier in life I might have gone farther but then again what does farther mean? I could have gone to better university? The big expansion of my mind happened after university when i continued studies independently using google. But beyond basic intellectual capacity there is a world full of learning opportunities that can give advantage to those that have exposure to them that have nothing to do with intelligence. Includes reading, travelling and even playing video games has its value.

So I guess the private school system is about removing barriers to growth rather than somehow making your kids smarter. But to your point. How much of us truly have the potential to run with that freedom to maximize the return on a 250k investment. For most I expect its just a waste of money.

 

Our grandson and his friends noted at the start of the year that all the honors students from elementary school are grouped together in classes in Grade 9.

I doubt that is just the luck of the draw. Better to separate the rowdy kids from the serious ones. It makes it easier to operate the school to confine the disruptions.

Our grandson says the problems are always coming from the same groups of kids.

 

Where I went to school all the more serious types took french immersion and the rowdy types did not.

 

I work at a private independent school.
Unlike traditional public schools, private schools are businesses. They require a profit to operate. That poses potential problems
Our biggest competition is not other private schools - it is the public school system...and there are excellent public schools out there, especially if you can access some of the smaller programs (they like to call them "gifted") programs for students. You just have to find the right match. Don't pay a school unless you have alot of excess cash, or you have a good reason to.
I put my kids into a private school because I didn't want my kids bullied - I had one son who may have been targeted - so I was happy that he was in a safe place.
The problem with private schools can be twofold. The parents are "paying us" teachers and so they "expect" results. You can read between the lines. The administration will tell teachers that they support them. They will also tell parents that they support them. You can see the potential problem. Public schools have unions.
Second. almost all of the students that I teach (95%) are simply amazing, fun, and engaging people. 5% are entitled, attitude-heavy, and lazy. Public schools are similar. A friend of mine is a policeman who once said that 90% of all crimes are commited by 10% of society. Similar to education - 10% if the parent/student population give 90% of the problems and complaints.

 

I work at a private independent school.
Unlike traditional public schools, private schools are businesses. They require a profit to operate. That poses potential problems
Our biggest competition is not other private schools - it is the public school system...and there are excellent public schools out there, especially if you can access some of the smaller programs (they like to call them "gifted") programs for students. You just have to find the right match. Don't pay a school unless you have alot of excess cash, or you have a good reason to.
I put my kids into a private school because I didn't want my kids bullied - I had one son who may have been targeted - so I was happy that he was in a safe place.
The problem with private schools can be twofold. The parents are "paying us" teachers and so they "expect" results. You can read between the lines. The administration will tell teachers that they support them. They will also tell parents that they support them. You can see the potential problem. Public schools have unions.
Second. almost all of the students that I teach (95%) are simply amazing, fun, and engaging people. 5% are entitled, attitude-heavy, and lazy. Public schools are similar. A friend of mine is a policeman who once said that 90% of all crimes are commited by 10% of society. Similar to education - 10% if the parent/student population give 90% of the problems and complaints.

A former work colleague who was a high school English public teacher in Muskoka area before switching to government library, her hubby, a math high school teacher had their gr. 9 son come home for lunch where a parent was a home so he would be more comfortable (ie.not bullied). However making child comfortable is usually not possible re bullying for many families.

(Anyway, son is now history professor at Wilfred Laurier U.)

I would be curious to know what your private school does to help foster building character in children, when a chunk of children's lives in current young generation is now on social media, even with their local friends.

 

There are no French immersion high schools in this area that I know of. French immersion classes are an optional part of the public high school curriculum.

Our grandson studied French in elementary school and his Grade 9 high school classes this year.

He said he will continue to take it because he got high grades in it and it is easy high school credits for him to gather up.

So I don't know that the difficulty level for the students is all that high.

 

There are no French immersion high schools in this area that I know of. French immersion classes are an optional part of the public high school curriculum.

Our grandson studied French in elementary school and his Grade 9 high school classes this year.

He said he will continue to take it because he got high grades in it and it is easy high school credits for him to gather up.

You don't know much do you?
Did you even look?

We have several French High schools in London.
French Immersion in both the Public and Catholic school boards, as well as French First language schools, which DO admit English students.

If you were paying attention there is a major controversey in London because the French Immersion schools don't have the capacity to handle the demand.
This is particularly acute at the High school level.

They already reduced admission to french immersion by cutting out JK, and allocating spaces by lottery.

 

Private schools tend to adopt the "college" description to their name. The most well known ones are very expensive.

The tuition cost doesn't include extracurricular activities such as summer trips to France etc.

I think if you can afford it and your children are very mature and serious, it can be worth the cost.

But if your kid is like Donald Trump.........save your money. It didn't make him any smarter.

Canada's Most Expensive Private Schools

Private schools in Canada vary widely in their tuition fees. Here we list the top 20 most expensive private schools in Canada.

www.ourkids.net

 

I went to a private high school "academy" at a university in Michigan for 2 years.

It was a good experience living on a university campus but pretty expensive and I ultimately had to leave due to the cost.

Of course it was different back in 1965 and 1966. I was 15 and 16 years old in Grade 10 and 11.

I also had to work before and after school in the cafeteria bakery with the earnings applied to my tuition bill.

I was sorry to leave but glad to come home. It is tough to be away from home and family at that age.

I think most of the private "colleges" listed above are schools that board students, so they would be in very similar circumstances.

That is something parents should think about when considering private schools.

 

There are charter schools in AB, and with our premier we can expect a major expansion of charter schools, which is unfortunate.
The AB public school system, with all it's flaws, has very good outcomes internationally.
For a neurotypical student with engaged parents, I see no difference in outcomes for a student going to public vs private.

 

There are charter schools in AB, and with our premier we can expect a major expansion of charter schools, which is unfortunate.
The AB public school system, with all it's flaws, has very good outcomes internationally.
For a neurotypical student with engaged parents, I see no difference in outcomes for a student going to public vs private.

I went to a Hutterite colony with my father in law when visiting family in Saskatchewan. They gave us a tour of the place. It was pretty impressive but a very tight knit group.

They showed us their school on the grounds. I would wonder how expansive and broad their education is in their little private school.

Does it prepare the kids well for higher education or do they assume everyone is going to remain and work in the closed community as adults ?

I doubt they focus on preparing their kids to leave for greener pastures.

 

Personally I think parents are pushing their kids along too fast.

Our grandson could be 17 in university. A lot of kids that age just aren't mature enough for university.

Just because a school is "private" doesn't mean it is a superior education. I doubt kids going to Bobs Bible College are any better educated.

There are a lot of religious affiliated schools that little is known about and don't make any "top ranked" lists.

For example.......there are Mennonite schools, Hutterite schools, Baptist schools, Pentacostal schools, Muslim schools etc.

It is like anything else..........choose wisely.

 

After October or November is "kick out time" in high schools. That is after the government pays the school their "per student" allotment.

It is also not that easy as just kicking them out. The school board is legally obligated to provide alternative learning to the students "kicked out".

 

Those aren't French secondary schools. They are regular schools with some space allocated for french immersion courses.

I think you are confused on what "french immersion" actually means. It just means the students take a couple of courses in the French language.

What is the difference between French school and French immersion in Ontario?

The purpose of a Francophone school is to teach French as a first language and encourage strong bilingualism. The teaching takes place in French. The purpose of a French immersion school is to teach French as a second language. English is the first language.

Every Ontario student takes French from Grades 4-8 and is required to hold 1 secondary school French credit to graduate.

 

Those aren't French secondary schools.

Correct, the French Secondary schools are a different school board.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89cole_secondaire_Gabriel-Dumont

I was specifically talking about french Immersion. That's why I linked specifically to the TVDSB French Immersion registration.

They are regular schools with some space allocated for french immersion courses.

You don't seem to understand how the French immersion system works in London.

https://laurier.tvdsb.ca/en/our-school/french-immersion-.aspx

I think you are confused on what "french immersion" actually means. It just means the students take a couple of courses in the French language.

So by your definition Laurier is a French immersion school then, because they offer a "couple of courses."

What is the difference between French school and French immersion in Ontario?

The purpose of a Francophone school is to teach French as a first language and encourage strong bilingualism. The teaching takes place in French. The purpose of a French immersion school is to teach French as a second language. English is the first language.

Don't know where you pulled that definition from.

French as a second language programs

Get information about French as a second language (FSL), including FSL programs available at Ontario schools.

www.ontario.ca

Most French Immersion programs in London aim for 70/30, and the primary language of instruction is French.
Announcements are in French, assemblies are in French, parental communication is in English

The concept with french immersion, is that by encouraging/forcing heavy use of French, you develop fluency. Which you do.
It is interesting to see bilingual kids randomly change languages as they play.

So, the fact remains.
There are multiple french immersion schools in London, you didn't know about them, and you are now confusing yourself with the definition of what french immersion is.


FYI,
Since I know and do volunteer work with kids at the various school boards, and I talk to their parents, I'm quite aware of the different options here in London.

 

Nope.......there are a couple of classrooms in secondary schools that are allocated to "french immersion" classes.

The schools operate in English as all students take most of their classes in English.

You can send your kids to a French language school but you will have to pay for it as they are private schools.

 

No.......there are a couple of classrooms in a huge secondary school that are allocated to "french immersion" classes.

The schools operate in English as all students take classes other than the french immersion classes in English.

There is no requirement for the janitorial schedule to be in French for it to be french immersion.

If the majority of your time is spent in french, that fulfils the intent and requirements of "French Immersion".

Back to the initial point, there are multiple french and french immersion secondary schools in London.
Now you can get yourself all confused, because you disagree with their definition of "French Immersion", but they are there.

I understand that you're embarrased, but you went from saying they don't exist on the website, then when you were shown the website, you claim to have such detailed knowledge of the education, you can confidently state that they're not what they and the school board claim.

Clearly Sags is more informed on the status of education in London than the schools and schoolboards, despite not being able to use their website.

 

FYI specific to Laurier, the simple summary is the offer classes in French and English.
If you take all your classes in French it's French immersion, if you take all your classes in English, it's English "immersion."

 

A lot of job listings in Ontario seem to expect both French and English for customer service and office jobs.

I see job listings will mention specifically when it is not required. Not sure if that is just formality or it is that important. But generally it is a limiting factor and the more serious kids would consider immersion than the other way around.

You have to pass standard government tests at the end to be considered bilingual officially.

 

It’s normal everyone is confused about what an “immersion” school is. The school boards are just as confused; it seems they all do it differently and it’s apparent across provinces.

In Quebec, there is also French immersion schools within the English school board system. They all do it differently too. Some just have a couple French classes. Others alternate subjects entirely in French from one year to another. Example: math, science and geography all in French one year. Next year it’s in English and other subjects are in French. IMO, this should be the true definition of “immersion”.

 

In Quebec, there is also French immersion schools within the English school board system. They all do it differently too. Some just have a couple French classes. Others alternate subjects entirely in French from one year to another. Example: math, science and geography all in French one year. Next year it’s in English and other subjects are in French. IMO, this should be the true definition of “immersion”.

Quebec is always special. I remember they banned English school when I was there. Don't they burn English booked on June 24?

Bilingual assessment is standard across provinces though and Quebec generally scores very high. Most young Quebecois learn English just from the internet, video games, social media etc

Immersion means you are taking subjects in a second language (besides the elective language bird courses sags refers to for easy grades) Like STEM or a real core class in French.

 

My son teaches senior high. Mostly IB.

The biggest challenge, for him and for other teachers, is students who transfer back to public high school in grade 10 because that is as far as their private or non secular school goes.

There is a reason for that. Many of these students are behind the others in the public system. . Academically and in especially in terms of critical thinking. They get identified straight off for extra attention help.

The reason some of those schools only go to grade 10 is university admission. University entrance folks are well aware of the differences between school districts, within school districts, and between provinces. Alberta, as an example, has had significant challenges in terms of university admission for students enrolled in certain home schooling programs. To the extent that some students were compelled to repeat their final year in the public system in order to get into certain university programs such as various STEM streams. GPA's, grades do not tell the whole story.

There are clearly first rate private schools. But there are some not so great wannbes.

 

thx for explaining AB situation. Sorry what is IB?

In my personal opinion : I think it's small minority of parents who would be capable of home schooling kids through high school. Critical thinking would demand that the parent themselves are also good in that way and KNOW how to facilitate healthy, non-damaging debate with their children and how to help a child analyze and problem-solve ...without being overbearing.

 

How does a kid get accepted to university if they don't have transcripts from an accredited school ?

 

@jlunfirst [QUOTE="jlunfirst, post: 2232639, member: 374553"

So I find it interesting that parents who have specific ideas that private school might be a "higher" quality so they pay..probably enough money these days. How much is it?
[/QUOTE]
The costs now a days is about $8k for 'affordable' low cost places - $30k+ a year for tuition. That doesn't include the extras or the bond that many schools require. It is expensive, but for some it can be worth it.

Having kids that started in private school, and moving to the public system in alternative programs and special learning need, there is definitely a place for private school. It may not be about higher quality - there is an aspect of that, but it is also about fit for the child and learning needs. If one has a child that doesn't fit the 'average' private schools or special programs can help.

For your tuition, you get much smaller class sizes, more enrichment opportunities and activities, usually higher technology, etc. There are more resources per student in all areas from academics, social, mental, health, etc. If it's the right fit, you will get kids at a young age loving to learn more and being able to work at their potential more. If you have a child that doesn't fit the average, then it's a consideration.

Public schools, just don't have the funding or the ability to offer much outside of the basics.
The irony is that the kids that get the LEAST attention are the ones that have the MOST potential. We learned this when we made the switch to a public school. Both my kids are academically very strong and considered gifted. They are also pretty non problematic as they don't disrupt, are polite, and self motivated compared to other gifted kids who are bored and act up. Teachers generally ignore the kids who are above grade level and don't cause issues. The resources go to teaching the average mass, and addition resources go to those struggling. Both kids states that they are pretty they didn't learn a single thing in their 4 grades, dispite being in a language school. The second language was the ONLY thing keeping them being bored to death.

We moved them in a GATE (Gifted and Talented Education), in grade 4 & 7 respectively. It's considered a special education class because gifted kids though academically ahead, often are more complex learners as many have multiple coding for other neurodivergence. Many people don't understand this, as they see really smart kids, but don't see the other learning challenges they have. If we didn't have our kids in a GATE school, we would have looked at private for middle school.

My oldest is out of the GATE middle school and is a public high school with an IB program and regular programs. There is over 1000 kids in her grade (yes, I said grade, not school). For her, we felt having her with the 'masses' would give her more exposure to diversity. This has worked for her, but only because she is one of those motivated kids who will advocate for herself.

Our many friends have their kids in expensive private school high schools too. The kids there will ALL get into University with 90+ averages. This is partially because some private schools inflate marks, but it's primarily that if your child isn't doing as well, the schools throw in a lot of resources. It was night and day during covid seeing what the private school did compared to the public. I was a little jealous as my kids and I had to do those things ourselves while our friend's private school barely missed a beat. My kid was sick with covid starting the day they were to return from winter break, she was out for 2 weeks after the break, though she kept up with ALL the reading and homework, her first day back, she found out she had a math final. Though she did all the work, the teacher forgot to post the review material. She walked into 3 finals cold, missing the last 2 weeks of review. My friends private school kid also missed around the same time, the child joined all the classes on line while the teachers still taught, everything was followed up one on one and they had a resource teacher making sure everything was still caught up.

I don't think my kids missed much being in public school, but I can say as a parent, I needed to much more involved in their extracirricular, and getting them extra help (tutors, programs, etc) when needed.

On the flip side, I do think kids in private schools are less rounded and more entitled. I can see it with the kids on the sports team, where they do great in school, but aren't great humans. I do think that is a big downside of private schools. We were at a team event, and my oldest was sharing what she was doing to increase her chances of scholarships, the kids and parents were stunned that one should have to think about using scholarships. This came from a parent that bought their oldest a $2mil apart to goto UBC.

Private schools are great if the goal is getting your child into a top university, however, I am not convinced it does an adequate job of raising a good human being.

 

Private schools are great if the goal is getting your child into a top university, however, I am not convinced it does an adequate job of raising a good human being.

You make some very insightful and accurate comments here PA. a couple of comments to add ...

1. Many of the students that I teach are, as you have, remarked indeed less rounded and more entitled. I will also add, more arrogant. Interestingly, it is the newer Canadians (immigrants) who I have found to be least entitled & least arrogant. Many (not all) of these families look up to teachers and value us for what we do. It is many "old-money, cocktail-club" families whose children pose many of the issues - especially if there is a divorce. Interestingly, the focus on character education right now is HUGE. These schools are working overtime to build programs that address character education - you'll see this in their school's mission statements.

2. You mention grade inflation. This has been a difficult one for me and for many front-line teachers to deal with...less so with administrators. What grade average is "needed" to get into UBC or UofT Science? (Important note to add - Many of the gr 12 students that I teach have full expectations of becoming a doctor, or rather, ...their parents have full expectations.....). answer: minimum 91-93%. very different from 1980's 90's. At a private school...are you "paying us (teachers) to get your son/daughter into their preferred post-secondary pgm? or are you paying us to "educate" your son/daughter? The answer is both.

3. Education is a big business, (...or at least getting bigger). I did a back-of-the-envelope calculation based on gr 12 160 graduates in an average independent school. The overall income paid by the families of the ONLY grade 12 families only is in excess of 5 million CAD. The only way for these schools to stand out is through marketing, and the marketing almost always focuses mostly on the added benefits (the band tour to Europe, the hockey tour to Dallas or California, the Golf team in Florida for march break, etc).

4. IB vs AP. IB (international baccalaureate) curriculum lends is an inquiry-based education, and the education is driven primarily by the student. It is a very good system, and widely accepted around the world. The catch is: some students simply do not have the maturity or drive to do it. The other choice for schools is to offer AP programs (Advanced placement). Look up the details, for example here. these are highly content-driven, teacher-led, lab-driven, and difficult to master. Students write an AP exam - like the exams offered in universities of yesteryear - and they get a grade. Almost all universities in the USA, and UK look for these AP scores in any candidate applying. That is why AP-based education is so appealing to any family/student wishing to get into an Ivy League (Princeton, Harvard, Yale, etc) school. This is why they pay the big dollars (see 3 above).

 

There are some other considerations to consider. Whether one believes diversity in schools is a positive or negative will be up to them but you have to assume that in a private school your child is not going to come across many poor kids. Since poor people make up a larger proportion of the country's/world's population then rich people, that in itself can set your child behind in some things. Here I am not talking about achedemic learning but more life learning and how to deal with all the various people that inhabit this earth that contribute to, and compete for, all the success your child may or may not obtain. It would not hurt to expose them to how these people act and think. Just my opinion of course.

 

you have to assume that in a private school, your child is not going to come across many poor kids.

yep!

very true. The response of the school is to change admission requirements and provide money to lower-income applicants through endowments. There have been some successes here, but the number of these applicants who are admitted is few, because of the cost to the system. Some schools promote "community service liaisons" with local schools at risk (read: poor neighborhoods), soup kitchens, etc. But still, surprisingly many of these students arrive to school in their Tesla's, and BMW's. are these experiences significant and impactful? I don't know. for some, yes. others....?

 

Western University has a general admissions pages for different students. The Ontario secondary school diploma appears the most straightforward.

It may be helpful for a general idea of what is required in Ontario universities. Specific programs may have additional requirements.

What Are My Next Steps? | Western University | London, Ontario, Canada

Review your requirements, submit & complete your application, plan your finances, accept your offer of admission, and get ready to come in September!

welcome.uwo.ca

 

Western University has admissions pages for different students. The Ontario secondary school diploma appears the most straightforward.

What Are My Next Steps? | Western University | London, Ontario, Canada

Review your requirements, submit & complete your application, plan your finances, accept your offer of admission, and get ready to come in September!

welcome.uwo.ca

Most Canadian universities have different admissions requirements for different students. In province , out of province, international, and mature. if they recognize IB or AP,ect.

It would makes sense for Ontario universities to understand Ontario high schools the most as that is still majority of their clientelle.

 

Also AB-based like @Plugging Along, lots of debate as our kid entered into K this year in the public system (regular program, no special focuses).

There seems to be 3 types of private/charter school (I group charter as private as they are specialized although full publicly funded):
Type 1 - Academic focused, nice rankings/stats -> families that are focused on climbing the economic ladder via resume building & great marks;
Type 2 (really only 1 school in our city imo) - Grooming the next aristocrat class of C-suites, politicians, etc. where everything extracurricular is in-sourced to the school with the same group to build comradeship -> families are old-money or top %1;
Type 3 - Very specific to specialized needs (i.e. twice-gifted, etc... ) -> Families very concerned about adapting to their child's needs vs. letting them be formed by an environment for the masses

Public has it's issues, but we found that there were small class sizes (i.e. 18 per class), and we felt we could piece together extracurricular equivalent or better than the private schools (i.e. instead of joining the school ski team, we'd take her skiing, etc).

Although our kids is probably high-IQ/gifted (reading @ grade 3/4 in K), they exhibit no behavioural problems so we ruled out Type 3. We've completed the economic treadmill so we ruled out Type 1. Type 2 is tempting, but logistically too challenging and there would be considerations on living in a bubble that we don't quite fit into.

That left public school (biased because I attended one not in AB for k-12 no IB or AP). Basically, a lot more parental effort, but also allowing us be heavily involved in shaping the journey for our kid. Instead of the school doing the scaffolding, essential we do it. Ensuring there's diverse exposure at an early age (as much going to a nice neighbourhood public school can get you) was important to us to create an independent, aware adult by 18.

 

Also AB-based like @Plugging Along, lots of debate as our kid entered into K this year in the public system (regular program, no special focuses).

There seems to be 3 types of private/charter school (I group charter as private as they are specialized although full publicly funded):
Type 1 - Academic focused, nice rankings/stats -> families that are focused on climbing the economic ladder via resume building & great marks;
Type 2 (really only 1 school in our city imo) - Grooming the next aristocrat class of C-suites, politicians, etc. where everything extracurricular is in-sourced to the school with the same group to build comradeship -> families are old-money or top %1;
Type 3 - Very specific to specialized needs (i.e. twice-gifted, etc... ) -> Families very concerned about adapting to their child's needs vs. letting them be formed by an environment for the masses

Public has it's issues, but we found that there were small class sizes (i.e. 18 per class), and we felt we could piece together extracurricular equivalent or better than the private schools (i.e. instead of joining the school ski team, we'd take her skiing, etc).

Although our kids is probably high-IQ/gifted (reading @ grade 3/4 in K), they exhibit no behavioural problems so we ruled out Type 3. We've completed the economic treadmill so we ruled out Type 1. Type 2 is tempting, but logistically too challenging and there would be considerations on living in a bubble that we don't quite fit into.

That left public school (biased because I attended one not in AB for k-12 no IB or AP). Basically, a lot more parental effort, but also allowing us be heavily involved in shaping the journey for our kid. Instead of the school doing the scaffolding, essential we do it. Ensuring there's diverse exposure at an early age (as much going to a nice neighbourhood public school can get you) was important to us to create an independent, aware adult by 18.

I would like to comment where only eldest niece went to private school after gr. 9,...because she asked for it since she knew she needed/wanted the intellectual challenge AND be with other peers who felt the direction too. The 4 others .... all went to public high schools in Toronto. I don't know about IB or AP for Toronto, since not 1 of my siblings-their mothers even bothered to tell us NOR did they ever tell the rest of family the academic progress of their children.

The parents did pay for and helped out for several years, nearly every season with each child's sport participation outside of school... which was as any parent can testify, was time-intensive... driving, being there at practice, games/competitions. I think it was partially also sports participation (whatever to the child's liking), that helped them cultivate self-drive/preparation etc.

Kinda cool for my youngest, 16 yr. niece she signed up for and participated @school in a feminism club which included 10 other teens. Each time exploring various themes. Stuff I lacked at my HS when I grew up! While her mother (a doctor) most certainly could discuss with her on this topic, this is where school is just a more well-rounded to participate with peers (with a teacher only a silent observer). So I don't give up on public school system. There's quite a number of high achievers in my extended family in my generation, the lst generation to attend university/college all from poor, restaurant worker parent families. (at least 6 different families across Metro Toronto). What is required, is consistent support for child to give them time and not pressure them to earn money so early, that it compromises on their study effort/energy.

The student grants and scholarships have been real benefit to my extended family..including myself and siblings with very real economic outcomes....for CAnada and for our own lives.

 

About 8% of students attend private schools. That means universities and colleges must be full of kids who graduated from public schools.

Private schools may be very good but don't appear to be necessary. Parents also need to choose between the schools carefully.

It is a case of "buyer beware" with private schools in Ontario. They have few legal requirements and may not fall under the Education Act.

Parents assume that because a school operated in Ontario, it is subject to the Education Act. However, only very small parts of the Education Act apply to private elementary schools. Section 1(1) of the Education Act requires that private schools:

1. Provide instruction any time between 9 a.m. and 4 p.m. on any school day
2. Have five or more students;
3. Have students of compulsory school age
4. Provide instruction in any (but not necessarily all) of the subjects of the elementary or secondary school course of study.

Beyond that, there are not many standards that apply to private elementary schools.

Page 7 of the Ministry of Education’s Private Schools Policy and Procedures Manual covers private schools.

Do Ontario Private Elementary Schools Follow the Same Laws and Standards as Public Schools? - John P. Schuman C.S., Child and Family Law

Discover why parents opt for Ontario Private Schools to provide their children with top-tier education. Learn about the diverse range of private schools and the importance of thorough research in this "buyer beware" market.

www.schumanlaw.ca

 

About 8% of students attend private schools. That means universities and colleges must be full of kids who graduated from public schools.
Private schools may be very good but don't appear to be necessary. Parents also need to choose between the schools carefully.
It is a case of "buyer beware" with private schools in Ontario. They have few legal requirements and may not fall under the Education Act.

Very true sags
My youngest graduated from a private school & attended Queen's. He commented how many of his public school peers were VERY smart, driven, and well-prepared for the demands there. Makes me think that so much goes on in the home (work ethic, values, drive, persistence). One thing that can happen in any school is bullying - private schools are not immune to this, but I have heard some real horror stories that come from the public system. a friend of our son was bullied and spent years clinically depressed (I know that mental health is complex, but I wonder whether the bullying played a role).
Regarding your second point - the more expensive private schools belong to associations, like the Canadian Association of Independent schools (CAIS) - this association requires them to meet very specific standards. If the school does not belong to CAIS, I wouldn't recommend it.

I would hate to think any parent with private school enrolled child then later, unfairly worries about kid socializing with kids from a public school, as somehow those kids knowing "less" or not as well-connected /networking.

I don't know where you are going with this jlun.
My observation is that pretty well all the students at the school that I work with have very good friends with peers from public schools. They hang out together, go to parties together, and are on the same community hockey teams. There is plenty of socializing going on between students from private and public schools.
The biggest barrier is family wealth.
Families with money (both private and public-schooled children) do not socialize or engage with poor families. Wealth presents more of a problem in this case - Wealth confers choice. Rich people have a choice in where their children attend school, which sport they will play, vacations, employment, etc. Many poor people do not.

 

It is getting more difficult to get into some university programs as student grades have increased considerably, which means the cutoff line is higher.

I had a discussion with our grandson and told him he is going to have to really improve on his grades in the 80s if he wants to go to university.

He said he is taking construction in his tech class next year for another option, just in case.

He is 14 and 6 foot 4 - 212 pounds and plays basketball. He is hoping for a scholarship so maybe that could lower the academic bar for him for entry somewhere.

Tyson Hamilton has a 96 per cent average and was president of his high school student council, but the Grade 12 student did not get admitted into business degree programs at the University of Toronto, Queen's or McMaster.

While Hamilton received offers from seven other university programs and is excited about his choice to enrol in a dual degree program at Western University this fall, he wonders why programs would reject an A-plus student.

"If a 96 isn't good enough, what is?" said Hamilton in an interview. "Where does it stop? Is everyone going to be needing 100 averages to get into these programs?"

His rejections are the result of a trend that reveals an increasingly larger number of students with high grades competing for Ontario's most coveted post-secondary spots.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-university-admission-rising-grades-1.6875357

 

It is getting more difficult to get into university as student grades have increased considerably, which means the cutoff line is higher.

I had a discussion with our grandson and told him he is going to have to really improve on his grades in the 80s if he wants to go to university.

He said he is taking construction in his tech class next year, so maybe that will be a good option for him, just in case.

He is 14 and 6 foot 4 - 212 pounds and plays basketball. He is hoping for a scholarship so maybe that could lower the academic bar for him for entry somewhere.

Tyson Hamilton has a 96 per cent average and was president of his high school student council, but the Grade 12 student did not get admitted into business degree programs at the University of Toronto, Queen's or McMaster.

While Hamilton received offers from seven other university programs and is excited about his choice to enrol in a dual degree program at Western University this fall, he wonders why programs would reject an A-plus student.

"If a 96 isn't good enough, what is?" said Hamilton in an interview. "Where does it stop? Is everyone going to be needing 100 averages to get into these programs?"

His rejections are the result of a trend that reveals an increasingly larger number of students with high grades competing for Ontario's most coveted post-secondary spots.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-university-admission-rising-grades-1.6875357

That is very hard on already good, decent students. Wonder if it's partially the past 2 covid yrs. which threw a mini-wrench in learning paritally remotely and under very different circumstances.

I was a good student but not brilliant. My siblings in terms of marks in final HS years, scored higher than I. I would say career-wise, I've done well, salary went yo-yo up and down because of some job switches. But in the end, I finish my career well. It was actually skills gained my career that changed parts of me permanently. So like we here, would advise any young person, not to let academic marks be the sole definer of their self-worth.

The University of Toronto has not seen any significant drop in the retention rate of students successfully moving on from first to second year amid the rising grades, says Benjamin. Still, he says faculty are reporting that incoming students seem to be struggling more than in the past, a factor likely attributable to the pandemic's disruption of their high school lives.

"High school grades get you in the door, but you're going to have to really prove yourself in first year, which is more challenging for some than others," he said.

 

Interesting and it may also reflect what some are saying that there is a wide discrepancy in the grading systems of different schools.

If students are struggling in their first year of university some inflated grades could be the reason.

The universities need to do a better job of assessing the grades so fewer students fill a placement only to wash out of the program later.

 

Interesting and it may reflect what some are saying that there is a wide discrepancies on the marking systems in different schools.

If students are struggling in their first year of university inflated grades could be the reason.

Maybe the universities need to do a better job of assessing the grades and schools so fewer students take a placement only to wash out.

Unless one is in an university dorm on campus, university can be isolating for some students who've had the daily comfort of close friend(s) in all their classes in last 2 yrs. of high school. On campus, you must learn to deal with everything yourself. Everything and living away from home is as we all know, a good thing, could be a shock for some.

And learning to do deal with everything solo (which alot of students do when living away from home), including getting lousy marks unexpectedly in a large undergraduate class of 100+ students, and no parent defending/helping you. (which for some teens, they suddenly don't have that support. Then it's not surprisingly some students fall into depression for awhile.