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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Canada has sent an incredible amount of weaponry to Ukraine; so much in fact that we've depleted our own stockpiles. There are Canadian LAVs (mini tanks) rolling around the battle fields, and Canadian-supplied M777 howitzers, which are precision-guided cannons. Canada has provided some of the most advanced shells for these cannons.

Let's not kid ourselves... we're at war with Russia. We're doing just about everything short of putting our own troops on the ground.

We're flying our weapons to the edge of the warzone. Russia has said they view these NATO flights as legitimate targets, since they are flying in arms. One of our planes could get blown out of the sky.

War has potential consequences. Russia is a nuclear power and this kind of war isn't just a giggle and a laugh, like Afghanistan was. We need more national debate and criticism. Is anyone in Parliament even questioning this warfare?

You know this could go nuclear, right?

I'm NOT on board with this much Canadian involvement in their war. At least not until there's more extensive debate in our political system.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Additionally, diplomatic relations between Canada and Russia are dead.

Why isn't Canada trying to negotiate peace? Why is Canada not pursuing diplomacy and de-escalation?

Instead, all I hear in the media is pro-war propaganda. All news reports are extremely one sided and blatantly pro-war. Nobody is talking about potential consequences of our involvement in war, and the risks such as contributing to World War 3 or nuclear war.

To those of you who are parents... are you really not concerned about your children's lives? The possibility of nuclear war? How about you conservatives... aren't you worried about the horrendous expenses, draining our national treasury to fight a European war?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
^ Comment to first post: I question first where exactly have Canada's weaponary donations landed in .... Ukraine. I read the frontline Ukrainian soldiers ain't seeing them.
Where are our weapons going then? We've sent so much that we've emptied the Canadian depos, have few left ourselves.

So where is all our weapons going? The big cannons?
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
Also to suggest Afghanistan was a "giggle and a laugh" is horribly offensive.
It was meant to get a rise out of people. It was an ironic statement to remind people just how disastrous the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan were.

Just in case anyone forgot, war is horrendous. It can't be taken lightly. We are currently in a proxy war with Russia and this can have very severe consequence for us... it cannot be taken lightly.

There is a mentality in Canada and the US that we can engage in wars and just sit here comfortably and enjoy our lives, as if nothing bad is going to happen to us.

You think high gasoline prices are inconvenient? Can't do your summer road trip? Well if high gas prices are the worst consequence we see, consider yourself INCREDIBLY lucky, because a lot worse things can happen too.

Nuclear war is a real possibility.

We also have to honestly ask ourselves if we are improving the lives of Ukrainians by heavily arming them, and dragging out this conflict into a multi-year war, with heavy weaponry being used all throughout the country. Again, where is the diplomacy? Where are the attempts to de-escalate?
 

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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
I'm sure many of you are baby boomers. Did you guys all forget the Cold War or something?

But these days, boomers say -- sure let's go ahead and start firing missiles at Russia and blow up their tanks. Putin is threatening nuclear war but I'm sure if we keep shooting at his tanks and planes, this will go well.

Seriously guys? Did you all forget about nuclear war? Did you forgot those drills you did when you were kids?
 

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Discussion Starter · #42 ·
Do you realized the thousands of Canadians who have suffered due to that war?
The dead and injured?

Oh, but just fu*king laugh at it, YOU IGNORANT LITTLE SH1T.
It appears Mr Matt gets my point, and knows that war is horrendous.

So Mr Matt, why don't you explain to other CMF members that war can have horrendous consequences, and shouldn't be taken lightly.

Is it a great idea for us to start firing at Russia? I would say NO.

... And sorry you took offence, but I am illustrating a point. Obviously Afghanistan was not something to laugh at. Just as war with Russia is DEADLY SERIOUS.
... And I certainly am not ignorant about Afghanistan. I am hoping to remind Canadians about what we suffered in previous wars and that there should be a very very high bar to entering into warfare.
 

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Discussion Starter · #50 · (Edited)
But the rest of us should sit back and thank our lucky stars that Putin didn't pick on us, right? At least not this time.
Many countries have picked on, and started unjust wars with many other countries. It happens all the time and it's pretty awful.

But Canada doesn't go around the world, firing rocket launchers at every belligerent nation. For example, we didn't start firing at Saudi Arabia when they began to slaughter Yemen. There are countless other examples.

In the few cases were we did actually engage in war (Afghanistan for example) the costs, pain, and consequences were immense. War should not be taken lightly. The highest priority is to defend our direct allies, which means US/NATO.

Ukraine is not in NATO. They're very nice people but they are not our official ally.
 

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Discussion Starter · #52 ·
I support Canada giving humanitarian and medical aid, but not supplying weapons to Ukraine.

After the Conservatives first started leading Canada into wars with the US, they haven't stop demanding our support.
100% agree. I would add to this that Canada should also give economic support.
 

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Discussion Starter · #92 ·
I think what Mr.Matt is saying that ammunition usually comes in a boxes, and 350 rounds is not a particularly large box of ammunition.
It isn't like you go into a gun store and buy 3 bullets at a time, so a purchase of 350 rounds wouldn't raise any red flags
Thanks, makes sense. I had not thought of that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #100 ·
It makes sense to me ONLY when I come to the conclusion that Ukraine is a sacrificial lamb by the US war mongerers just like in Iraq, Libya, etc
Thanks so much Gumball for posting, because I share many of the suspicions you posted there.

I don't really know what's going on but I do worry that Ukraine could be (yet another) excuse for the American military-industrial complex to make lots of money. The warfare industry has a huge amount of power in American politics and basically runs the show.

US warmongers scare the daylights out of me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #107 ·
For those who are waiting for Putin to die, they may get their wish soon. I hope he dies and I would prefer it to be in a fiery blaze.
There is a strong nationalist movement in Russia. His replacement could be worse, even crazier.

At least western intelligence has a solid grasp on Putin, probably decades of psychological profiling and analysis. He's somewhat of a known quantity.
 

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Discussion Starter · #121 ·

Well ****, West imposed economic sanctions on Russia, now Russia found a way to impose economic sanctions on the West
One example of unintended consequences / side effects of warfare.
 

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Discussion Starter · #143 ·
What I worry about is that we could be in a proxy war with Russia. And I don't want to be at war with Russia.

The key to the strategy is to find a committed local partner — a proxy willing to do the killing and dying — and then load it up with the arms, money and intelligence needed to inflict shattering blows on a vulnerable rival. That’s just what Washington and its allies are doing to Russia today.
It's food for thought.

 

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Discussion Starter · #167 ·
Sometimes you have to negotiate or even surrender to stop the terrible consequences of war. Sometimes you have to recognize you aren't going to win.

Zelensky needs to leave Ukraine and allow for the negotiations to begin........to stop the terrible damage to the Ukrainian people.

The way the war is ramping up there may be nothing left in Ukraine to fight over.
I'm surprised how little effort is being put into negotiations and diplomatic talks. Instead, it's all about sending more weapons into Ukraine. I did talk with my MP and said I'd like Canada to work on other humanitarian efforts instead of sending weapons.

Has anyone thought about what happens to all that modern military equipment after the outcome of this war? Whose hands will they fall into?

All those anti-tank missiles, rocket launchers, bombs might become part of the arsenal of someone we consider an enemy, perhaps even Russia. Perhaps Russia will relocate those weapons into the hands of other rebel groups, elsewhere, which fight against western allies.

But of course, the military-industrial complex and their lobbyists are happy to push for sending more weapons to Ukraine. It's money directly into their pockets, free government stimulus.
 

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Discussion Starter · #174 ·
It sounds like the Russians have mined the sea. @Mukhang pera I couldn't read the NYT article you posted, but is this what they are writing about? Mines?

Who the F plants mines in the sea? There are fishermen out there, commercial vessels too. Romania and Turkey are trying to find and disarm these mines... ridiculous. Look at all the countries that share the Black Sea!

Bulgaria, Romania, Ukraine, Russia, Georgia, Turkey

How do you propose to "stop" Russia ? There is no support from NATO countries to enter the war.
NATO countries have sent many billions of $ of weapons, trained the Ukrainian military, and also applied enormous economic sanctions and pressure to harm Russia.
 
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