Canadian Money Forum banner

Would you get AstraZeneca vaccine?

  • - yes

    Votes: 18 27.3%
  • - no

    Votes: 23 34.8%
  • - not sure

    Votes: 5 7.6%
  • - already got it

    Votes: 20 30.3%
321 - 340 of 379 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,188 Posts
Don't exaggerate! I don't know how many young women died from AZ in Mississauga, but as per Peel region website, only 2 Covid related deaths under 40 for both genders from beginning of the pandemic fro city close to 1M people.
... so what with your stats. Are you saying Mississaugians don't travel/ move about (ie. out of the city of Mississauga to other cities in Ontario) so Torontonians, Hamitonians, etc. can have the most deaths from Covid?

If you still do not understand the concept of the Covid disease, then repeating here:

Covid is an infectious = contagious = spread from people to people disease.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,188 Posts
Let’s change the poll to…..would You accept a 2nd dose of AZ?
... I think the folks who had no (adversial) reaction from the first dose of AZ will be fine with the 2nd dose. I would be wary about mixing AZ with another different type of vaccine - that would seems truly experimental if not, precedent.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
468 Posts
Ontario has AZ doses that are about to expire. I want my second dose.

Everyone is evaluating their personal risk here, not the collective risk. I suggest that abandoning AZ and prolonging the pandemic by say even a month will result in many more deaths in that marginal month than caused by the marginal AZ deaths. Is this not obvious to anyone else? At current ~ 2 month average daily 50 deaths/day is 1500 in a marginal month of delaying things vs a handful by vaccine. The vaccine incident rate is 1/60000 with up to 40% fatality rate. So if every Canadian were vaccinated with AZ, at 38 million population that would be 633 incidents and 253 deaths. So the break even worst case is 5 days delay in bringing this pandemic to heel. If abandoning AZ delays the pandemic resolution by more than 5 days, it costs lives.

At the personal level abandoning AZ might make medical sense, but at the global level not so much. We will make the incorrect decision here because death by vaccine is in our face whereas death by prolonged pandemic is more abstract and amorphous.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
206 Posts
... I think the folks who had no (adversial) reaction from the first dose of AZ will be fine with the 2nd dose. I would be wary about mixing AZ with another different type of vaccine - that would seems truly experimental if not, precedent.
If the second shots of AZ are not available, I won't be mixing and matching. I didn't really want the vaccine anyways, and did it more out of a sense of civic duty - so I'm not overly concerned about not being "fully protected" with the second shot.

Right now, while these vaccines are brand new - we still have probably at least a years worth of data to see if there are any medium term effects on the original trial groups. We have no such data with mixing and matching - like you said it would be truly experimental. I'll pass on that opportunity, even if the experts say its OK to do. Who knows, maybe the data will change and the experts will change their mind about mixing and matching vaccines.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,188 Posts
^ I agree with your logic (first paragraph).

The government will have to "really figure" out on the "supply issue of AZ" , not only for the 2nd dose, but for the future too. Reasons being 1. booster shots, and 2. all the major politicians got it (PM, ON's premier & deputy, TO's mayor). Imagine how the latter will feel if they're getting a cocktail of vaccines.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,980 Posts
The need of the 2nd dose is also something that is in the eyes each individual. One needs to consider that for the original virus, only around 1% of the individuals obtained a dose of infection so high, compared to their own immune systems response, that they could not survive it. All the others survived without the help of any vaccine at all. I have to imagine that if that 1% had of received even 1 dose, of any of the vaccines, that almost all of them would still be alive today.

Now with that said, the original virus has pretty much been replaced by more dangerous viruses and when we remove precautions and lockdowns, the average size of the dose of infections will probably rise for all of us, so I will leave that mystery with each reader to determine for themselves. If they offer me a 2nd dose of a vaccine, I consider safe and effective, I will roll up my sleeve right away and accept it thankfully. Until then, I feel a lot stronger with the one dose I have already received and will monitor the situation closely.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
206 Posts
Heard this morning that Maj.-Gen. Dany Fortin, the man in charge of Canada's vaccine procurement, says that there will be enough AZ for everyone to get their second dose.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,378 Posts
Ontario has AZ doses that are about to expire. I want my second dose.

Everyone is evaluating their personal risk here, not the collective risk.
Nope, I'm very self centered, and when we were at 4k cases/day in Ontario to me it was an obvious no brainer to get the AZ shot, or any shot.
having gotten the first shot, I still want my second AZ shot.



I suggest that abandoning AZ and prolonging the pandemic by say even a month will result in many more deaths in that marginal month than caused by the marginal AZ deaths. Is this not obvious to anyone else? At current ~ 2 month average daily 50 deaths/day is 1500 in a marginal month of delaying things vs a handful by vaccine. The vaccine incident rate is 1/60000 with up to 40% fatality rate. So if every Canadian were vaccinated with AZ, at 38 million population that would be 633 incidents and 253 deaths. So the break even worst case is 5 days delay in bringing this pandemic to heel. If abandoning AZ delays the pandemic resolution by more than 5 days, it costs lives.

At the personal level abandoning AZ might make medical sense, but at the global level not so much. We will make the incorrect decision here because death by vaccine is in our face whereas death by prolonged pandemic is more abstract and amorphous.
In norway it might make sense, in India they should be using AZ.
Personally in Ontario today I think AZ makes sense for most people.

I'm about as scared of taking 2 vaccines for COVID as I am taking a new flu shot every year, or mixing Measles Mumps and Rubella in a single shot.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
206 Posts
I'm about as scared of taking 2 vaccines for COVID as I am taking a new flu shot every year, or mixing Measles Mumps and Rubella in a single shot.
I think I'm going through a similar thought/concern process as you did when Canada decided to extend the times between doses. IIRC you were one of the vocal ones that had concerns about it? The concern being, this isn't what the manufacturer recommended.

Turns out, spacing the doses might even be better than not. Maybe we'll see the same thing with mixing vaccines?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,378 Posts
I think I'm going through a similar thought/concern process as you did when Canada decided to extend the times between doses. IIRC you were one of the vocal ones that had concerns about it? The concern being, this isn't what the manufacturer recommended.

Turns out, spacing the doses might even be better than not. Maybe we'll see the same thing with mixing vaccines?
Yes I was very upset, I thought it was wrong.

However at 4k cases/day in Ontario, and hospitals putting people in tents, and what i"m hearing from staff burnout and shortages, I accepted that handling the surge as the priority, as opposed to any longer term concern.

Really when you have incomplete data, you have to do a risk tradeoff.
I thought they were wrong, but as it got worse the risks changed. Now with extended interval data becoming available, it looks like extended intervals actually might be the preferred option for many people.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,951 Posts
I think I'm going through a similar thought/concern process as you did when Canada decided to extend the times between doses. IIRC you were one of the vocal ones that had concerns about it? The concern being, this isn't what the manufacturer recommended.

Turns out, spacing the doses might even be better than not. Maybe we'll see the same thing with mixing vaccines?
Given the rush to get the vaccines approved for use, it makes sense that the pharma companies would have used short intervals between doses for their clinical trials. And maybe once approved, they did not continue with further trials to test longer intervals, especially since the results were very good for three weeks and they were approved. I think there is reason to believe from other vaccines that longer intervals is not dangerous, so the decision to pursue this strategy was not unscientific.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,194 Posts
Really when you have incomplete data, you have to do a risk tradeoff.
I thought they were wrong, but as it got worse the risks changed. Now with extended interval data becoming available, it looks like extended intervals actually might be the preferred option for many people.
It's also starting to look like second shots will come in well before 4 months.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
510 Posts
Yes I hope they don't wait for more vaccine mixing study results before giving the second shot. I want my second dose now. One of the reasons I took astrazeneca was to get my second shot earlier. Just to add my understanding why Europe doesn't give astrazeneca is because they have a lawsuit against them for inadequate supply
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,194 Posts
Still waiting. Lots of talk, no action. I thinks it's probably more likely they'll extend the 4 months further since they're giving the Pfizer to everyone down to 12 year olds.
Our second shots start on May 22nd. Not sure about other provinces but I don't think many are very far behind us in MB.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,727 Posts
Our second shots start on May 22nd. Not sure about other provinces but I don't think many are very far behind us in MB.
Also, Pfizer deliveries keep increasing. The figure I saw initially was 2 million doses/wk this month and 2.5 million doses/wk next month. It might have even increased since those early figures. That's something like 20 million doses over just these two months... let's remember that a total of maybe 30 million Canadians will be vaccinated. And we have many millions more doses coming in the following months.

We're getting absolutely MASSIVE vaccine deliveries. Pull up a chart of vaccination progress of say the UK vs Canada. The vaccination curve from Canada has accelerated in the last ~ 2 months.

My parents are likely going to be scheduled for their second shot in just a few weeks. This isn't a question of waiting many months.

Also I want to point out that younger people are actually the ones working in all the dangerous jobs, at stores, in factories, warehouses etc. These people deserve to be protected and many don't have the option of staying home and staying safe. They have to work.

They deserve to get vaccinated as much as anyone else. A 30 year old is still in significant danger from COVID.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,635 Posts
My parents are likely going to be scheduled for their second shot in just a few weeks. This isn't a question of waiting many months.
I'm about half way through my sentence and no one has phoned me. It's still scheduled for 4 months and will likely stay that way since they decided to give the vaccines to everyone before protecting seniors fully.

They deserve to get vaccinated as much as anyone else. A 30 year old is still in significant danger from COVID.
So from this chart you think a 30 year old and 70+ shouldn't be subject to some form of priority?
I'm sure the 30 year has to work, but the senior has to live.

21677


ltr
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
206 Posts
I'm about half way through my sentence and no one has phoned me. It's still scheduled for 4 months and will likely stay that way since they decided to give the vaccines to everyone before protecting seniors fully.



So from this chart you think a 30 year old and 70+ shouldn't be subject to some form of priority?
I'm sure the 30 year has to work, but the senior has to live.

View attachment 21677

ltr
Seniors did get priority. They were given doses first, when supplies were low.

Seniors aren't dying because their second shot is delayed. They're not being hospitalized because their second shot is delayed. They're not even getting covid with minor symptoms because their second shot is delayed.

Recent data from BC is showing that 98% of all recent Covid cases (cases, not deaths) have been from those unvaccinated or within 3 weeks of their first shot.


Its really quite selfish to prioritize peace of mind over the protection of the entire population, especially when the emerging data continues to support the decision to delay second doses, and is looking like it actually offers superior protection to the manufacturers recommended timeline.

Its time to walk back from your position of opposing the delaying of second shots. The data does not support it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,635 Posts
Its time to walk back from your position of opposing the delaying of second shots. The data does not support it.
AstraZeneca-Oxford developer blasts Canada's approach to vaccine, says 'messing around is going to cost lives'

Oxford University regius professor of medicine Sir John Bell told CTV News’ Question Period, Canada’s approach to AstraZeneca use specifically is reflective of the country’s overall vaccine strategy: “acting on a lot of hearsay not facts.”

“What we can see is that the more people with a second dose, the more people will have antibody levels that are high enough to deal with the Indian variant, which is where we are at the moment, in the U.K. So my advice is get people two doses, as fast as you can and hunker down,” he said.

And on the mixing of vaccines, Bell, who has intimate knowledge of the study currently taking place at the University of Oxford, said initial findings show severe side effect outcomes.
“Our experience to date is that it produces pretty severe reactogenicity, so severe that we don't think that's going to be viable and by that I mean, you get your second dose if you flip it over, you'll get really sick, so I would not advise that,” he said.


ltr
 
321 - 340 of 379 Posts
Top