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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Even though CERB has ended a while ago, it seems pretty misleading for restaurant owners to beat on the "lazy" workers drum on why they can't find people to work for them.

In reality, many of the restaurant workers simply upgraded their skills during covid and ended up with white collar jobs and not looking back.


It pretty much sells the argument that it's not a labour shortage, but a wage shortage. People are making better money elsewhere.

Of course, the owners' answer is to import foreign workers: How can restaurants win back staff? Ottawa labour shortage persists despite pay raises, benefits
 

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Think you have it partially wrong. People are being paid to stay home until Oct 23rd @ $300/wk. Not as much as the original $500/wk but enough to keep some at home.

P.S. Be careful citing anything from the socialist CCPA. Nothing they publish is as it seems, nor does it being carried by the Red Star give it credibility either.

Added: I don't blame the folks for leaving the industry if they have to put up with customer abuse in particular. I thank the front line folks we interact with when we go out to a restaurant, the local Subway, or whatever it happens to be... for being on the job. We will have to learn to pay more for our food, services, etc.
 

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Who can live on $300 a week ?

From what I have read, I agree that a lot of people have moved on to better jobs.

Instead of working in a restaurant for minimum wage, they are working in retirement homes for $20 an hour.

The work is the same.......a server in a restaurant or a server in an upscale retirement home.

I remember being in Edmonton when there was a worker shortage and there were "help wanted" signs everywhere.

The result was higher wages, which to some extent remain today. Higher wages are sticky. It is almost impossible to keep employees by cutting wages.
 

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Someone in the industry told me the solution is simple.

The industry has to pay more and treat their employees better if they want to attract good help. Imagine...there are still restaurants that claim part of the tip that patrons leave on a credit card payment. Not to mention the scams with foreign workers or new immigrants.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Think you have it partially wrong. People are being paid to stay home until Oct 23rd @ $300/wk. Not as much as the original $500/wk but enough to keep some at home.

P.S. Be careful citing anything from the socialist CCPA. Nothing they publish is as it seems, nor does it being carried by the Red Star give it credibility either.

Added: I don't blame the folks for leaving the industry if they have to put up with customer abuse in particular. I thank the front line folks we interact with when we go out to a restaurant, the local Subway, or whatever it happens to be... for being on the job. We will have to learn to pay more for our food, services, etc.
It's nice to be critical and question the numbers, but which facts do you have issues with?

There's a shortage of restaurant workers, and there's an increase in white collar workers that are about equal.

The pandemic economic recovery hit an important milestone in September 2021: Canada has returned to the same number of people employed as February 2020. We’ve had population growth since then, so we need more jobs now than we had a year-and-a-half ago. However, this general recovery has hidden the fact that a major sectoral realignment has been underway.

The sector that took the biggest hit during the pandemic was the food and accommodation industry, as shown in Figure 2. In September 2021, it still employed 180,000 fewer workers than it did pre-pandemic (February 2020). It is also the sector that is complaining the loudest about a labour shortage.

However, there has been a gain in workers in the professional, scientific and technical services (think accountants’, lawyers’, architects’ offices etc.). In an odd coincidence, that sector has gained 183,000 workers since February 2020.

This is true in other sectors that were impacted by job loss at the start of the pandemic, such as “other services” (think dry cleaning, barber shops, hair, and nail salons), which is down 96,000 jobs. Those job losses were offset by job growth in the education sector, which added 94,000 jobs.

Compared to the sectors that lost jobs, other sectors gained almost the same number of jobs. This is true for professional services, insurance/real estate, health care, education and public administration.


Given that the employment rate levels has returned to Feb 2020 levels: The Daily — Labour Force Survey, September 2021, and that there is a shortage of workers in one sector, it only stands to reason that other sectors have benefited. If it were true that it was because of CERB, then you would expect the employment levels to be lower than Feb 2020 levels instead of equal.

Edit: the link does say that the employment rate is lower, but total employment has returned.
 

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What facts were wrong? CERB successor benefits are still being paid @$300/wk. The program lasts until at least the end of next week (Oct 23rd).

CCPA likes to manipulate data to suit their purpose. No doubt many of the 180k jobs lost in the sector have moved on to be many of the new 183k jobs but it is a stretch to say this is the majority. No one has done the statistics. Many new workers entered the work force and many self-employed would have had to go back to working for the man. Same with the conclusion comparing 96k lost jobs with 94k new jobs. CCPA is making a lot of assumptions and conclusions which is what ideologically based institutes do. Take it with many grains of salt.

P.S. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence in our local region that a number of folk are still sitting at home with the $300/wk benefits. It is what many of the 'unemployed' are telling prospective employers to this very day. The percentages are unknown but it is real and of some significance. We won't really know until ALL the overly generous benefits have ended and there is a shortage of incoming to put supper on the table.

Added: It is good news that employment is up in certain sectors and I hope many/majority of those jobs are upgrades from where jobs were lost. The point I am making is no one yet knows the specifics and CCPA is not the place to take your facts from. They are ideologically motivated just like I wouldn't take the spin from what the Fraser Institute might say either.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
What facts were wrong? CERB successor benefits are still being paid @$300/wk. The program lasts until at least the end of next week (Oct 23rd).

CCPA likes to manipulate data to suit their purpose. No doubt many of the 180k jobs lost in the sector have moved on to be many of the new 183k jobs but it is a stretch to say this is the majority. No one has done the statistics. Many new workers entered the work force and many self-employed would have had to go back to working for the man. Same with the conclusion comparing 96k lost jobs with 94k new jobs. CCPA is making a lot of assumptions and conclusions which is what ideologically based institutes do. Take it with many grains of salt.

P.S. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence in our local region that a number of folk are still sitting at home with the $300/wk benefits. It is what many of the 'unemployed' are telling prospective employers to this very day. The percentages are unknown but it is real and of some significance. We won't really know until ALL the overly generous benefits have ended and there is a shortage of incoming to put supper on the table.

Added: It is good news that employment is up in certain sectors and I hope many/majority of those jobs are upgrades from where jobs were lost. The point I am making is no one yet knows the specifics and CCPA is not the place to take your facts from. They are ideologically motivated just like I wouldn't take the spin from what the Fraser Institute might say either.
So, the wrong part about CERB was on me. My understanding is that CERB was done with, regardless of the CRB replacement. The only role CCPA is stating about CERB is that it provided the opportunity for the workers to upgrade skills and look for other employment. As for generous numbers, I doubt I could live on a $15k annual income. Whether CRB ending is going to greatly impact employment, in the US, it doesn't seem to be the case: U.S. states ending federal unemployment benefit saw no clear job gains. The labour pool increased, but number of jobs available didn't change. Basically, people just had their benefits ended, but still didn't find jobs.

As for the exact people moving away from service jobs to white collar jobs, that'll be a pretty detailed survey requirement to find all the recent hires and find out where they came from. However, it's pretty evident that the restaurant sector is losing people, and people are being employed.

Look at the other link then about StatsCan employment numbers than. When they talk about self-employed, 51% of the CRB beneficiaries reported being self-employed within the last 12 months. Of course, self-employed could be anything, i.e. Uber drivers, part-time contract workers. And anecdotes are just stories. People like saying what they like, whether it's true or not since they can't be verified or confirmed. You get enough people to say the same story and suddenly it's true because multiple people say the same thing, even if it's not true.
 

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The bottom line is that anything can be spun the way someone wants it spun. There is indeed a shortage of front line service workers in our area, particularly restaurants, fast food, baristas, lodging, etc. We have a particularly high proportion of summer tourist related businesses here that were heavily understaffed. Whether that resolves itself soon remains to be seen. What I do know and what I have responded back to my MP just this morning in fact, is that we have to end stay-at-home payments on Oct 23rd and if necessary, re-direct it to front line wage subsidies instead. Gotta work to get paid.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The bottom line is that anything can be spun the way someone wants it spun. There is indeed a shortage of front line service workers in our area, particularly restaurants, fast food, baristas, lodging, etc. We have a particularly high proportion of summer tourist related businesses here that were heavily understaffed. Whether that resolves itself soon remains to be seen. What I do know and what I have responded back to my MP just this morning in fact, is that we have to end stay-at-home payments on Oct 23rd and if necessary, re-direct it to front line wage subsidies instead. Gotta work to get paid.
We'll see. If there's still a service worker shortage by Christmas time, then I'd say that pool of workers is reduced due to finding bigger and better things. Of course, isn't that what we're supposed to expect? Everyone keeps saying that service jobs are supposed to be short-term, not a career, so that's why they get paid so little. They go and find better jobs and now we complain that we can't find service workers?
 

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We know a lot of service jobs are held by students and by those who either didn't finish high school, or only did finish high school. Some genuinely like it longer term and that is good too. There is always a pecking order. I do think they should pay a living wage (full time basis). Probably means $20/hr minimum.
 

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Hmmm ... locally there seems to be a long way to go as the restaurant ads that have an hourly wage is $14.

Meanwhile, a hotel has two ads - one for the registration desk at $21 an hour and another for a bar tender/server for $14 an hour.

A few are listing ranges of $14 to $17 an hour.

Cheers

PS
A few of those who left the restaurant industry who were interviewed on the radio said they weren't looking to change but the abuse they took from customers regarding health restrictions changed their minds.
 

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Anger, abuse and racism: Restaurant workers struggle to enforce vaccine mandates

I think restaurants collectively stick with the "take-out only" model during the pandemic than putting up with this BS in serving the public. Or if that's not possible, for customers who wish to "dine-in" during this time, tack on an automatic extra "10%" to the final bill for the extra mandated (lousy) service.

Just got back with a take-out from a fast food eatery, observed the cashier/server asked for "proof of vaccination" from a dine-in customer for the use of its restrooms. [I'm guessing take-outs customers don't get to use the restrooms at all.] Doh, if not comical.
 

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Anger, abuse and racism: Restaurant workers struggle to enforce vaccine mandates

I think restaurants collectively stick with the "take-out only" model during the pandemic than putting up with this BS in serving the public. Or if that's not possible, for customers who wish to "dine-in" during this time, tack on an automatic extra "10%" to the final bill for the extra mandated (lousy) service.

Just got back with a take-out from a fast food eatery, observed the cashier/server asked for "proof of vaccination" from a dine-in customer for the use of its restrooms. [I'm guessing take-outs customers don't get to use the restrooms at all.] Doh, if not comical.
Using a bathroom does not require a passport in Ontario.


There are also a few specific exceptions to the vaccination requirement for the venues listed above:
  • People entering the indoor area of a restaurant or bar only to get takeout, to pay or to use a washroom.
  • Kids under 18 entering a sports or recreational facility for active participation in an organized sport, such as a league or classes, including dance, martial arts or swimming.
  • People entering a meeting or event facility solely to attend a wedding ceremony or funeral service. The exception does not apply to a reception or social gathering associated with the wedding or funeral. However, until Oct. 13, a non-vaccinated person can attend such a social gathering by producing a negative COVID-19 test administered within the previous 48 hours.
 

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Someone in the industry told me the solution is simple.

The industry has to pay more and treat their employees better if they want to attract good help. Imagine...there are still restaurants that claim part of the tip that patrons leave on a credit card payment. Not to mention the scams with foreign workers or new immigrants.
Yes, absolutely.

Start paying restaurant workers more. Give them real salaries, not these joke salaries.

We can end the tipping practice as well. In Australia, restaurant workers get paid quite well, and there is NO tipping. It's ridiculous that these people depend on tips to pay the rent.
 

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It must be the smaller restaurants having the issues because late yesterday afternoon Joe Fortes was running full bore fully staffed, and packed to the gills and turning people without reservations away at the door about every few minutes. We had a reservation.
 

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Yes, absolutely.

Start paying restaurant workers more. Give them real salaries, not these joke salaries.

We can end the tipping practice as well. In Australia, restaurant workers get paid quite well, and there is NO tipping. It's ridiculous that these people depend on tips to pay the rent.
All of Europe as well

You can tip as an actual tip (as in a bonus not an expectation) but more commonly round up the bill

Canada's "tip in" policy is deceitful
 

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Using a bathroom does not require a passport in Ontario.


There are also a few specific exceptions to the vaccination requirement for the venues listed above:
  • People entering the indoor area of a restaurant or bar only to get takeout, to pay or to use a washroom.
  • ...
... that would mean those Uber/DoorDash/SkipTheDishes drivers should be flashing their vaccine-certificates when running through the dining area (at my location) prior to picking up their orders at the counter. Doesn't seem to be the case as all they do is shout out their order # (or then flash their phone if needs to) for the take-out.
 

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The McDonald’s near me has had a notice on their marquee for weeks for walk in interviews every Thursday.
... good luck with the hirings. I'm just waiting to see the eventual fall-outs in that industry which'll be spilling to others.
 
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