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My choice is plug Hybrids. Once we get over the opposition to modular nuclear power I am betting on Toyota and hydrogen fuel cells. Nuclear power can create large volumes of hydrogen with almost zero carbon emissions.
 

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My choice is plug Hybrids. Once we get over the opposition to modular nuclear power I am betting on Toyota and hydrogen fuel cells. Nuclear power can create large volumes of hydrogen with almost zero carbon emissions.
If I needed to buy a new car, I think it would be a plug-in hybrid. Hopefully one that would have sufficient electric range for normal daily trips - shopping, golf, dining out etc. plus a margin. Maybe 100km. in total would do. Not available yet!

You are right about hydrogen. It is the answer for many applications.
 

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If I needed to buy a new car, I think it would be a plug-in hybrid. Hopefully one that would have sufficient electric range for normal daily trips - shopping, golf, dining out etc. plus a margin. Maybe 100km. in total would do. Not available yet!

You are right about hydrogen. It is the answer for many applications.
Toyota has some plug ins good for about 50 miles. I am about 30 miles outside of Calgary . I could almost make the round trip without using any gas.
 

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Rich or not rich, three out of the four people I know who own Teslas bought them because of the incentive. A few more bought other EVs or PHEVs because of the incentive. So anecdotally, the incentive is working. I bought mine because of the incentive. I don't see it as subsidizing the rich as much as encouraging EVs.

Tesla's strategy was always to make more expensive cars with higher margins so that they can learn and develop cars cheaper for everybody. Their Model 3 is the first affordable EV by them as a result of this strategy. Even with the Model 3 they are skewing towards the more expensive trims which don't get the incentive. This is my first time being an "early adopter" so it was a big step for me. I still buy four year old phones and only pay $10/month total for my entire family's cell phone plans.

The reason why there are no EVs on the lot are because a lot of the EVs made are compliance cars and they didn't make many. From what I've been reading, traditional dealerships have been asking for higher than MSRP for EVs and purposefully stalling the role out of EVs. Compound this with the chip shortage and it's easy to sell out. Heck even ICE cars are sold out!! If ICE companies were smart they would do pre-orders with a deposit like Tesla and get an interest free loan.

In other news, the Model 3 Standard Range Plus went up in price so it's no longer eligible for the incentive. Let's see how things shake out and see who's right!!
 

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Toyota has some plug ins good for about 50 miles. I am about 30 miles outside of Calgary . I could almost make the round trip without using any gas.
According to their site, just two and their ranges are 40km and 68km (42 miles). And most of the EV ranges are overstated, according to reports. Nevertheless, at least with PHEV, you won't be left stranded :)

Another problem, is actually getting one of these vehicles. Deliveries are apparently worse than Teslas, at least on the RAV. The Hyundai Ioniq is interesting. and seems to beat the Toyota Prius Prime on most counts. It has a 47km range and it seems these cars charge on 120V. 2021 Hyundai IONIQ Plug-in Hybrid vs Toyota Prius Prime | Hyundai Canada

So many new models coming out, best to wait, I would think.

Besides, why pay $700/month when I pay $0/month (plus a little for gas or diesel) for existing cars :)
 

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Ford and GM do factory pre-orders on their ICEs but at least in the USA, dealers are marking up beyond MSRP by tens of thousands of dollars for popular models. Manufacturers cannot do anything about it.

Apparently there is an anecdote out there that a MustangE buyer complained to a Ford executive that local dealers were asking exorbitant markups to buy scarce models. The Ford executive recommended the buyer go and buy a Tesla Model 3 instead. As m3s has been saying, the f'ing dealers are the obstacles in what should be a simple online buying process. FWIW, I never want to see a dealer after I have picked up the vehicle.
 

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My choice is plug Hybrids. Once we get over the opposition to modular nuclear power I am betting on Toyota and hydrogen fuel cells. Nuclear power can create large volumes of hydrogen with almost zero carbon emissions.

Nuclear power can create large amounts of electricity which can be used to charge batteries or create hydrogen.

Hydrogen solves the recharge problem. But it's way less efficient than a battery.
What advantage does it have?
 

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Rich or not rich, three out of the four people I know who own Teslas bought them because of the incentive. A few more bought other EVs or PHEVs because of the incentive. So anecdotally, the incentive is working. I bought mine because of the incentive. I don't see it as subsidizing the rich as much as encouraging EVs.
Well it's subsidizing people buying expensive cars that would have been sold anyway.

The reason why there are no EVs on the lot are because a lot of the EVs made are compliance cars and they didn't make many.
No, they aren't "on the lot" because there are shortages.
You bought a Tesla, you know that they still have shortages.

From what I've been reading, traditional dealerships have been asking for higher than MSRP for EVs and purposefully stalling the role out of EVs.
No, they're profit maximizing.
It's supply and demand, high demand, low supply raise price.
There are 10 Mustangs showing as "in inventory" within 150km of Toronto. Typically they show there for a few days after they're sold.

In other news, the Model 3 Standard Range Plus went up in price so it's no longer eligible for the incentive. Let's see how things shake out and see who's right!!
Go ahead, check, what is the delivery time for a no subsidy Model 3 Standard Range Plus?

I'd say if it's more than a a week or two they're still supply constrained.
February delivery... I'd say they're still shortages.
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How many in inventory?
Not one within 200km of Toronto.
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If there was a single Model 3 vehicle available I'd say we could consider something to push demand, but that's not the problem today.

However the people buying a $70k Model 3 are wealthy. People with median incomes (ie 80k) are buying used cars, or maybe a $20-25k compact, or even a $30k SUV, not a $70k car.

FWIW I was thinking my next vehicle would be an ICE in a few months, but over the last 2 years it's switched to maybe a plugin hybrid, to now thinking in 3 years I'll get an EV. (yes my perspective over a 5 year time change has shifted that dramatically).
 

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Nuclear power can create large amounts of electricity which can be used to charge batteries or create hydrogen.

Hydrogen solves the recharge problem. But it's way less efficient than a battery.
What advantage does it have?
it has a range advantage .With the above scenario hydrogen fuel cells would mean a real zero carbon emissions.
 

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Nuclear power can create large amounts of electricity which can be used to charge batteries or create hydrogen.

Hydrogen solves the recharge problem. But it's way less efficient than a battery.
What advantage does it have?
Lack of extremely destructive mining.
No reliance on banana republics for resources
Easier and more durable storage
Existing infrastructure can be easily fitted for hydrogen (that's why not building more pipelines is stupid)
 

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I disagree. If they were viable and car manufacturers could make money from them they would be selling them. Auto makers don't care what a car runs on if they can sell it for a profit. They're in the car business not the oil business.
Exactly. Car manufactures will make money regardless the fuel that is made available. They are not in the oil business but the government is. So the government ultimately decides what kind of car you should drive.

I am not disagreeing that there are alternative fuels out there that are superior to oil. I am just saying that there is a lot to lose by getting away from oil.
 

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Hydrogen won't be green until nuclear is promoted. Only then fuel cells will be viable en masse
For some reason it is a boogeyman to environmentalists. They would rather have poisoned rivers and child labor in mines.
Guess too much money yet to be taken from the poor and given to the rich in subsidies to get away from it and promote nuclear
 
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