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I can definitely see charging network from Tesla, which is very extensive, is a valuable asset. If I am Mr. Musk, I will spin it off into an REIT/business trust if I need more money for R&D.

I can see malls paying Tesla to build charging network for reason Mr.Matt mention, this is another revenue stream.
 

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I believe we've been over ths before. Refining gas uses a tiny fraction of cobalt compared to a single Tesla battery.
How can that be the case when some Tesla batteries contain no cobalt at all?

And how can it be a 'tiny fraction' you need more cobalt for every liter so its a function of usage.
 

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@spiritwalker2222 Just a follow-up article about the Tesla 3 sub-$45k. Basically less than half of 1 percent who bought a model 3 bought this compliance model: Tesla's Cheap 94-Mile Model 3 Has Cost Canadian Taxpayers $115 Million



Apparently, even for a week with really bad heat/cold, it could consume 35 kWh, which isn't detrimental. But the expectation for a week is 2.45 kWh. How to reduce battery drain (aka vampire drain) when you leave your Tesla parked up (Phantom Drain)
It was never meant to be purchased and Tesla actively discouraged people to buy them. It is not a compliance car, it is a model designed to make the actual product eligible for government incentives.
 

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I don't think there is much money to be made in a standard charging network.
It's like gas stations, where competition is intense.

Except for 2 things
1. Add ons - Visits are longer, so that Starbucks/Lounge could be profitable. I expect Malls might want a lot of charging stations.
2. Cost for electricity, residential electricity, particularly at of hours is really cheap. I saw an article where someone noted that it was more expensive to charge the EV at a paid station than his gas guzzling Pickup. (based on cost per mile).

I think charging stations make sense as loss leaders for other services (stores) or to sell EVs.
I expect there will be a premium charge for non-Teslas, or the other OEMs will have to make a per-vehicle contribution to Tesla. Tesla's rates for charging are quite reasonable compared to most charging networks, and I don't think they'll open it up to non-Tesla EVs on the same terms.
 

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It was never meant to be purchased and Tesla actively discouraged people to buy them. It is not a compliance car, it is a model designed to make the actual product eligible for government incentives.
To my mind that is a compliance car. A car so that Tesla cars can get an incentive that otherwise is ineligible to get. As you said, it's not meant to be purchased, so why should Tesla be allowed to get the benefits of the incentive if it's not a "serious" car for buyers?
Would you find it acceptable that a car manufacturer produces a base model at $55k, not eligible for incentives, but then builds a version with a 1 kWh battery pack that can be "sold" for $44.9k so that their base model is now eligible? That is exactly the issue. It's gaming the system. If there was another criteria, i.e. the sub-$45k base model has to demonstrate sales of a certain threshold (say 1000 units/yr), then I would find that to be an acceptable way to implement that particular incentive.
 

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I expect there will be a premium charge for non-Teslas, or the other OEMs will have to make a per-vehicle contribution to Tesla. Tesla's rates for charging are quite reasonable compared to most charging networks, and I don't think they'll open it up to non-Tesla EVs on the same terms.
A smart play would entail the user needing to use a Tesla app and establishing an account with them. Then they know who all the users are and gather data.
 

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If there was another criteria, i.e. the sub-$45k base model has to demonstrate sales of a certain threshold (say 1000 units/yr), then I would find that to be an acceptable way to implement that particular incentive.
Or even simpler: progressively phase out the incentive based on the price of the model being bought.
 

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Or even simpler: progressively phase out the incentive based on the price of the model being bought.
I'm fine with that. It actually makes the most sense. I didn't realize that it was actually scaled in the fashion that it is. I get the idea was that the first time there was an incentive Tesla was the only game in town and priced at a luxury level, so the incentives were looked at subsidizing the rich people. Now that there are lower cost options available, it makes sense to cap them.
 

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To my mind that is a compliance car. A car so that Tesla cars can get an incentive that otherwise is ineligible to get. As you said, it's not meant to be purchased, so why should Tesla be allowed to get the benefits of the incentive if it's not a "serious" car for buyers?
Would you find it acceptable that a car manufacturer produces a base model at $55k, not eligible for incentives, but then builds a version with a 1 kWh battery pack that can be "sold" for $44.9k so that their base model is now eligible? That is exactly the issue. It's gaming the system. If there was another criteria, i.e. the sub-$45k base model has to demonstrate sales of a certain threshold (say 1000 units/yr), then I would find that to be an acceptable way to implement that particular incentive.
I have no problem with Tesla gaming the system. The system was designed to be gamed. The framers of the policy were also obviously deliberately trying to exclude Tesla from eligibility for the credit, probably due to a lingering perception that Teslas are expensive luxury cars. I'm not sure why any car should be ineligible for the credit, considering the stated goal of the credit. EVs are more expensive up front and cheaper to operate. A $50k EV is more akin to a $30-35k gas car on a TCO basis.
 

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I have no problem with Tesla gaming the system. The system was designed to be gamed. The framers of the policy were also obviously deliberately trying to exclude Tesla from eligibility for the credit, probably due to a lingering perception that Teslas are expensive luxury cars. I'm not sure why any car should be ineligible for the credit, considering the stated goal of the credit. EVs are more expensive up front and cheaper to operate. A $50k EV is more akin to a $30-35k gas car on a TCO basis.
Teslas are viewed as luxury cars because of price point. Nothing more. If you recall, Ontario had an incentive didn't actually have this stipulation back in 2010, and the only EV game in town was primarily the Tesla S, a car over $100k. So, it was viewed as primarily as a benefit for the rich. Given that you can find many ICE models less than $20k, and even some EV models less than $40k, the cut off seems reasonable. From the government POV, it's not great to give money when an EV purchaser could by 2 or 3 cheap ICE vehicles instead of 1 EV: Top 11 Cheapest Cars in Canada in 2020.
 

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If they don't want people to game the system, they shouldn't have arbitrary cut-offs. I don't see a compelling reason to offer an incentive on a $40k car and nothing at all for a $50k car.
 

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I think there should only be incentives for those vehicles that can show environmental savings savings including manufacture & disposal. A small Mazda ICE should come with a government incentive rather than a luxury EV car that isn't actually that green.
 

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Mercedes just teased its Vision EQXX with a promised range of 1,000 km.

Anyways, my next car will be a CUV. Maybe a Hyundai Kona EV. I like it.

But my car is currently only 7 years old. I may keep it until 2030.
 

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I may have to buy an EV.

Provided, as eyesight fails and other issues result in driving license being medically suspended, I will still be allowed to get around in a self driving EV!

Will we need driving licenses to own and travel in a self driving car (EV)??
 
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