Canadian Money Forum banner
301 - 320 of 335 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,310 Posts
@spiritwalker2222 Just a follow-up article about the Tesla 3 sub-$45k. Basically less than half of 1 percent who bought a model 3 bought this compliance model: Tesla's Cheap 94-Mile Model 3 Has Cost Canadian Taxpayers $115 Million

Just what one needs with a Tesla parked out in a lot somewhere such as an airport for a week. Come back and find the battery dead, or almost dead. Should those gimmicks not default to OFF in the first place?
Apparently, even for a week with really bad heat/cold, it could consume 35 kWh, which isn't detrimental. But the expectation for a week is 2.45 kWh. How to reduce battery drain (aka vampire drain) when you leave your Tesla parked up (Phantom Drain)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,154 Posts
The same can happen with modern ICE cars. (rest cut ,,)
One thought. Article I linked lists some actions an ICE owner can take to prevent battery from dying. But if it does (and presumably EV battery will also be drained by same or similar systems), how do we get car going again?

With ICE engine, we can get a jump start from another car, CAA/AAA, or if we have one, a jump start battery.

If the EV battery is dead for any reason, what does owner do? Does it get towed to nearest charging station? Then owner has to wait until there is enough charge to get home or to hotel?

Maybe answer is to just not park the EV for long periods. Take a taxi to the airport? bgc's last link provides some other options.

If we ever get an EV, it will be a town car. We will still keep an ICE car for long trips. Our time horizon for driving is less than 15yrs. May take longer than that before EVs are a practical answer for a single car household.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,705 Posts
There should be a disconnect switch removing all current draws from batteries. Not sure if EV's have this. Storing an ICE vehicle for more than a few months ( or 2 weeks in -30 at the airport) its easy enough to spend a few seconds and remove the battery cable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
There should be a disconnect switch removing all current draws from batteries. Not sure if EV's have this. Storing an ICE vehicle for more than a few months ( or 2 weeks in -30 at the airport) its easy enough to spend a few seconds and remove the battery cable.
I know Prius have them, although that is not an EV.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
91 Posts
There should be a disconnect switch removing all current draws from batteries. Not sure if EV's have this. Storing an ICE vehicle for more than a few months ( or 2 weeks in -30 at the airport) its easy enough to spend a few seconds and remove the battery cable.
Doing so would not allow the battery management system to manage the battery temperatures and reducing it's life span. You're trying to save a few pennies at the expense of a $10,000 battery!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
62 Posts
The same can happen with modern ICE cars. We have to keep our seldom used 2019 Subaru on trickle charge. Otherwise battery will be dead next time we need to use it. Manufacturers install minimal batteries to reduce weight for lower mpg.

Even our late 90s Mercedes with substantial battery could not be left parked at an airport for 3 weeks without risk of battery dropping below no-start voltage ...

Battery drain is caused by on-board computer and other tech items that many cars have these days ...
Weird ... IIRC, my '86 Escort sat six weeks in airport parking with no issues because of the Sept 11th attack. When my friend visited, it sat for four weeks. Two to three weeks was more common. No issues starting it up when I returned.

A 2009 Fusion and a 2017 Santa Fe have shown no issues after two weeks.


Discovering a dead battery usually was from leaving the lights on or similar and found in my driveway.


Cheers
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,154 Posts
Weird ... IIRC, my '86 Escort sat six weeks in airport parking with no issues because of the Sept 11th attack.
My 72 & 85 can be left all winter and will start right up in the Spring. But those cars are of a different era. Only current draw is from the clock. I disconnect battery anyway.

Don't count on the Sante Fe battery not going dead when parked without trickle charger. I have a friend with one! It will likely not be much different than an Outback of same era. Also this: Hyundai Santa Fe Sport Questions - battery keeps going dead but only at home. the dealership blames the k... - CarGurus.ca
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,163 Posts
So, if we all switch to electric vehicles, will this be our fate? What follows I borrowed from my brother-in-law who has some knowledge of these things, which I totally lack, so the scenario posited below might just be a joke. I don't know any better, so I could see it happening. I am sure some here can tell me why this can never happen.

Snow, Traffic Jams, and Electric Cars.

Can we show a little forethought and practicality? Please? Has anyone thought about it?

If all cars were electric ... and were caught up in a three hour traffic jam… dead batteries! Then what? Not to mention, that there is virtually no heating in an electric vehicle. And if you get stuck on the road all night, no battery, no heating !!!

You can try calling 911 to bring women and children to safety!

But they can not even come to help you since all roads are blocked !!!

And when the roads become unblocked no one can move!

How do you charge the thousands of cars from the traffic jam?

Same problem during summer vacation departures with miles of traffic jams.

This will make cars run out of "fuel" and cause never ending traffic jams.

But that, nobody talks about.
21899
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,163 Posts
^ Too long a video to hold my limited attention span. I'll take it that, in a nutshell, the message is that these vehicles cannot easily run out of power and and the frozen traffic jam scenario lies beyond the realm of possibility. Fair enuff.

As I said, I know nothing of these vehicles and not to interested to know. Maybe some years in the future when we replace what we are driving now. Then I might endeavour to learn a bit about them. On that score, the conventional wisdom on CMF is never buy new (a rule I confess too having breached on occasion). Does that apply to electric vehicles as well?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,279 Posts
I'll take it that, in a nutshell, the message is that these vehicles cannot easily run out of power and and the frozen traffic jam scenario lies beyond the realm of possibility. Fair enuff.
One universal feature they could use in the future is car to car charging. Just like giving someone a few liters of fuel to make it to a station.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,154 Posts
Just thinking that it would only take a few cars running out of juice to cause an even bigger mess than the one pictures earlier. In the picture, all the cars have their lights on. Presumably EVs will have running lights like all cars do now. In stop start driving in super cold weather with lights and heat on, how long does a 1/4 charged battery last?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,279 Posts
In stop start driving in super cold weather with lights and heat on, how long does a 1/4 charged battery last?
A fair amount of time apparently. I believe most EVs are using LED lights which would consume much less power than regular bulbs. Heat (and likely A/C) would be the biggest non-driving drains on the battery.

There are a fair number of Tesla owners showing youtube videos of power consumption and driving range loss in the cold winter months.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
91 Posts
If all cars were electric ... and were caught up in a three hour traffic jam… dead batteries! Then what? Not to mention, that there is virtually no heating in an electric vehicle. And if you get stuck on the road all night, no battery, no heating !!!
LOL, my PHEV is rated for 42 km's. If I'm in a traffic jam it's good for 100+ km's. The slower I go the better the mileage is, that's where EV's shine. Afraid you're going to run out of juice, don't crank the heat or A/C. I've driven 70 km's in the winter.

In the summer I go to drive in theaters and run the A/C. It uses about 5-10 km's of range for a 2 hour movie.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
222 Posts
Whether or not Elon Musk is just blowing smoke, he's said that they plan on opening up their Supercharger network to other EVs by the end of the year. Probably charge more and you need an adapter, but something to help deal with range anxiety for those not buying a Tesla.

Opening their charger network is a good competitive move. At the moment it is an asset. If others build networks and it become redundant then it becomes a liability.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,932 Posts
Charging networks are nice, but they really don't make much sense as an investment, except to entice people to buy EVs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,310 Posts
Opening their charger network is a good competitive move. At the moment it is an asset. If others build networks and it become redundant then it becomes a liability.
Yes, it justifies the investment they've made in the charger network. Of course, it's a bit of a tradeoff of a walled garden approach, where Tesla may see an increased revenue stream in their charger network with some decrease in car sales revenue.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,932 Posts
Yes, it justifies the investment they've made in the charger network. Of course, it's a bit of a tradeoff of a walled garden approach, where Tesla may see an increased revenue stream in their charger network with some decrease in car sales revenue.
I don't think there is much money to be made in a standard charging network.
It's like gas stations, where competition is intense.

Except for 2 things
1. Add ons - Visits are longer, so that Starbucks/Lounge could be profitable. I expect Malls might want a lot of charging stations.
2. Cost for electricity, residential electricity, particularly at of hours is really cheap. I saw an article where someone noted that it was more expensive to charge the EV at a paid station than his gas guzzling Pickup. (based on cost per mile).

I think charging stations make sense as loss leaders for other services (stores) or to sell EVs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,310 Posts
I don't think there is much money to be made in a standard charging network.
It's like gas stations, where competition is intense.

Except for 2 things
1. Add ons - Visits are longer, so that Starbucks/Lounge could be profitable. I expect Malls might want a lot of charging stations.
2. Cost for electricity, residential electricity, particularly at of hours is really cheap. I saw an article where someone noted that it was more expensive to charge the EV at a paid station than his gas guzzling Pickup. (based on cost per mile).

I think charging stations make sense as loss leaders for other services (stores) or to sell EVs.
Those points are fine, and the intent has always been to pair service stops including restaurant facilities/convenience stores with supercharger hubs. No different than the Onroute hubs if you're in Ontario.

As for cost of electricity, Tesla supercharger assumes $0.26/kWh and only Nunavut and Northwest Territories have higher rates. Assuming that there's a surcharge for non-Tesla cars, Tesla can add a significant revenue stream. How much is hard to say.
 
301 - 320 of 335 Posts
Top