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Those two negatives are huge in my mind, not small at all.

Trivializing it (use of slight is offensive) won't convince very many folk.
Offensive?? Give us a break. This is supposed to be a friendly discussion with many views and opinions.
 

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As a testament to reliability of PHEV's, there is a 2012 Volt (PHEV) with 763,000kms of which 266,000kms were in EV mode and I know of several Prius's with over 900,000kms.

People are lining up and paying well over MSRP for the RAV4 prime.

The environmental impact potential of PHEV's is much greater than EV's because they can build ~5 PHEV's with the same battery resources as 1 EV and that PHEV could be operating in EV mode 99% of the time. I use my ICE maybe 3-4 times/year. The last time filled the gas tank was Feb 2020. I doubt I have more than 2000miles on the ICE in 3.5 years

With rebates the Volt cost me less than a new Camry and I've saved ~$10,000 in gas over 3.5 years

It's too bad GM killed the Volt or did not migrate the Voltec technology to an SUV like the Rav4 prime
 

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Offensive?? Give us a break. This is supposed to be a friendly discussion with many views and opinions.
I purposely used that word to get reactions.... and discussion... and I succeeded. I guess I should have put parentheses around it. I will endeavor to be more sensitive going forward.

Added: For a one vehicle family that needs both range along with mostly short haul, I do see the PHEV as a reasonable compromise. Not sure PHEVs will be much more than an intermediate (bridging) phase though. I doubt they will be selling many, if any, of them by 2030.
 

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Not sure PHEVs will be much more than an intermediate (bridging) phase though. I doubt they will be selling many, if any, of them by 2030.
Hard to say what will happen ... 2034 might be the best year for ICE sales if they're going to stop selling them in 2035. Then again it's not like the government can't change it's mind before then.
 

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It's a challenge for the auto manufacturers because they can't afford to keep $billions tied up on an assembly plant and much of its ICE supply chain on a 'what if' proposition on whether they can sell half a million units of a product line that may, or may not, have a future the following year. IOW, nothing can turn on a dime in that manufacturing operation.
 

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Of course they'll have to adapt to the demand & laws but most of that will be tied to the neighbors down south and who is in power down there. The US could do a turn around on banning ICE where most of their units are sold.
 

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Hard to say what will happen ... 2034 might be the best year for ICE sales if they're going to stop selling them in 2035. Then again it's not like the government can't change it's mind before then.
Considering that GM plans on being all-electric by 2035, Volvo by 2030, and Audi by 2033, there's no real need for the government to impose a deadline, as more manufacturers are going to go that route. UK is going with 2030, and EU with 2035, so Canada's not alone, although it's the US that would be the biggest factor. California is banning in 2035 as well... which has the population size of Canada, so that's not insignificant as well.

A comprehensive list of countries: Gasoline Phaseouts Around The World — Coltura - moving beyond gasoline
 

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Considering that GM plans on being all-electric by 2035, Volvo by 2030, and Audi by 2033, there's no real need for the government to impose a deadline, as more manufacturers are going to go that route.
Didn't all (most?) auto makers bring in those plans because of government policies? I'm sure they'd be just as happy to keep on making ICE vehicles if climate change wasn't a big issue.

I agree, it will most likely go forward but things can change. Hopefully a new battery tech will come about or maybe another technology will be found that has less limitations and is easier on resources.
 

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Didn't all (most?) auto makers bring in those plans because of government policies? I'm sure they'd be just as happy to keep on making ICE vehicles if climate change wasn't a big issue.
Indeed! Automaker plans line up with what government is dictating in the countries which have a gov't mandate. It remains to be seen whether ICEs will continue to be made elsewhere but they will likely have too in some fashion where electrical supply and transmission is wanting.
 

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Didn't all (most?) auto makers bring in those plans because of government policies? I'm sure they'd be just as happy to keep on making ICE vehicles if climate change wasn't a big issue.

I agree, it will most likely go forward but things can change. Hopefully a new battery tech will come about or maybe another technology will be found that has less limitations and is easier on resources.
I thought they announced them before the governments did, but I don't recall the timelines.

We'll see about battery technology. The only reason why Tesla was able to be successful at the start was because Li-ion technology was just starting to get mature. The previous EVs used Ni-metal which was significantly lower capacity.

Over the next 10 years, with more of a push towards EV, I'm sure we'll see developments in batteries. Of course, whether the research ends up becoming commercially viable is another question.

 

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Interesting that the Harvard researchers name is Li. 😀

Unless lithium can be and will be recycled, world resources could be depleted fairly quickly. One report estimated 50 yrs. Alternatives will be needed. For lithium and perhaps for the batteries themselves.
 

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Funny thing about 10 days ago in our 45C heat wave. My relative's Tesla Model S sitting out front in the sun had its fans cycling on and off throughout the day despite not going anywhere at all. He'd plug it in to our 30 amp (L2?) circuit overnight to keep it fully charged up.

Anecdotes: He had to obviously stop between the Okanagan and Vancouver to recharge (I don't need an intermediate fill up). Another relative needed to recharge his Tesla once between Edmonton and Lethbridge last week (no ICE car needs to do that). Until range is equivalent, I have no interest in making stops that I don't want to have.
Teslas have a cabin over-heat feature to keep the car below reasonable temperature (unlike most cars, which would let a baby/dog get cooked). You can turn it off if you are concerned about power usage.
 

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Just what one needs with a Tesla parked out in a lot somewhere such as an airport for a week. Come back and find the battery dead, or almost dead. Should those gimmicks not default to OFF in the first place?
 

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They may be huge negatives to you, not others that I've talked to about it but we all have to make up our own minds on it.

A guess "slight" also depends on where you live and the rebates available. If it ends up being 2-3k more the average driver could make that back in gas costs in 3-4 years no?
I drive more than the average person. I save about $2,000 a year in gas with my PHEV. Once or twice a week I do a 250 km trip towing a bike and average 4.8 L/100km's on those trips (at highway speeds). I've had the car for 2 years and am averaging 2.3 L/100km's. Driving conditions plays a big role, like any car. I get better fuel economy in the winter as I'm not towing at all in the winter.

If you don't drive much don't get an electric car or PHEV. A hybrid might not even be worth it if your km's are low enough.
 

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Unless lithium can be and will be recycled, world resources could be depleted fairly quickly. One report estimated 50 yrs. Alternatives will be needed. For lithium and perhaps for the batteries themselves.
There is also the backlash on the ethical mining for batteries, mainly for cobalt IIRC.
 

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If you don't drive much don't get an electric car or PHEV. A hybrid might not even be worth it if your km's are low enough.
Everyone needs to look at their specific needs for sure and those that do low mileage may not benefit on the gas saving. Twenty years ago I had to decide between getting a gas or diesel (a $2k option) engine. I choose the diesel and it paid off pretty quick and continues to do so today. I'll do the same analysis when a PHEV/EV comes into my sights.

On a side note, I know a few truck guys that really wish the Ford Maverick had a PHEV option. The hybrid would save them money but a PHEV version would save them even more.
 

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There is also the backlash on the ethical mining for batteries, mainly for cobalt IIRC.
Cobalt is also used in refining gasoline, so you can't win. Actually, there are chemistries that don't use any cobalt. Tesla use Lithium Iron Phosphate in China. It is not quite as energy dense as cobalt chemistries but has good durability.
 

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Just what one needs with a Tesla parked out in a lot somewhere such as an airport for a week. Come back and find the battery dead, or almost dead. Should those gimmicks not default to OFF in the first place?
The same can happen with modern ICE cars. We have to keep our seldom used 2019 Subaru on trickle charge. Otherwise battery will be dead next time we need to use it. Manufacturers install minimal batteries to reduce weight for lower mpg.

Even our late 90s Mercedes with substantial battery could not be left parked at an airport for 3 weeks without risk of battery dropping below no-start voltage. Only safe solution was to disconnect battery, but then computer has to re-learn and adapt the car to driving habits and we have to reset radio codes etc.

Battery drain is caused by on-board computer and other tech items that many cars have these days. This article covers these better than I can! :
 
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