Why are Ontarians so bad at basic finances?

4701 Views 134 Replies 23 Participants Last post by moderator2, 12 mo ago

m3s

Discussion Starter · 12 mo ago

You can see it everywhere. I have lived in many provinces and several countries. No other demographic region in the developed world is this financially inept.

Take the water tank rentals as a very simple example. Nearly all Ontarians think it is perfectly acceptable to rent a water tank with an open ended contract. If they could just do 30 seconds of elementary school math they would realize that it only takes a few years for this to be a bad deal. The builders are clearly getting some kind of kick back on the rented water tanks to get some kind of efficiency rebate but they don't need to install any of the more efficient features.

Ontario auto insurance is a huge scam. You only have to compare to any other province. Ottawa doesn't seem to ever manage a decent procurement deal. Maybe we just need to move the government to any other province that has a decent financial aptitude. Even Quebec does far better. Alberta or Saskatchewan would probably do much better. The bar is not set very high to begin with. It's literally elementary school stuff. Nowhere else in Canada do so many people fall for blatant scams.

Is it something in the water? Is it the catholic education system? What is it? What do they not get about capitalism? Why would you ever rent a hot water tank?

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AltaRed

· #2 · 12 mo ago

m3s said:
Is it something in the water? Is it the catholic education system? What is it? What do they not get about capitalism? Why would you ever rent a hot water tank?

I've never understood it either, i.e. renting a water heater. Really? Does one rent their furnace? their kitchen appliances?

Mind you, I've also been bewildered about calling electricity "hydro". Does it look like water? Okay, I get that Adam Beck started the ball rolling (in a significant way) with hydro-electric electricity but seriously WTF is hydro? BC is almost entirely hydro-electricity with most of it delivered by BC Hydro but no one I know here calls those electrons hydro.

OTOH, maybe milk in bags is more manageable. Buy a Rubbermaid pitcher and that may be more convenient than a recyclable plastic (or waxed) carton. Y'all do strange stuff 'down east'.

m3s

Discussion Starter · #3 · 12 mo ago

Hydro-Quebec makes sense as they operate mostly hydroelectric dams

Hydro-One is mostly nuclear energy. Maybe they though Nuc-Ontario had a bad ring to it so they copied Quebec. "Did you pay the Nuclear bill this month?" I blame Trudeau

I forgot about the milk bags. To be fair our milk is better than US or Europe imo. UHT is disgusting

off.by.10

· #4 · 12 mo ago

AltaRed said:
I've never understood it either, i.e. renting a water heater. Really?

I suspect it's because they avoid paying installation up front. There's also a "don't worry about maintenance" aspect. Might be worth it to landlords (steady $, no surprises). Having no up front cost is also a great incentive for builders, if people are willing to pay the same for a house which is effectively without a heater.

That said, it is indeed one of the most financially stupid things I've seen. In terms of %, probably as bad as the most crazy car deals. The only worse thing I can think of is renting a cable modem or (decades ago) a landline phone.

As for the original question, go figure. It's as bad in Quebec (we have water heater rentals too). One thing I've noticed is that basic finance isn't mandatory in school. Not even an option in high school as I remember. Add the fact that most people suck at basic math... and maybe you get this outcome. Seeing as it's the only math most people will need in their life, maybe it should be integrated into the math classes.

andrewf

· #5 · 12 mo ago

AltaRed said:
Mind you, I've also been bewildered about calling electricity "hydro". Does it look like water? Okay, I get that Adam Beck started the ball rolling (in a significant way) with hydro-electric electricity but seriously WTF is hydro? BC is almost entirely hydro-electricity with most of it delivered by BC Hydro but no one I know here calls those electrons hydro.

The utility company was, for a long time, called Ontario Hydro.

m3s

Discussion Starter · #6 · 12 mo ago

off.by.10 said:
I suspect it's because they avoid paying installation up front. There's also a "don't worry about maintenance" aspect. Might be worth it to landlords (steady $, no surprises). Having no up front cost is also a great incentive for builders, if people are willing to pay the same for a house which is effectively without a heater.

The landlords are just writing in the lease that the tenant pays the utilities and the hot water rental fee goes on the Hydro One bill

I suspect the builders are getting some kind of benefit from it from the province or the water tank company. They are installing top end water tanks with features they don't even use. They must get a rebate from provincial government for efficiency or something even though they don't install any of the efficient plumbing that would actually make it efficient. Otherwise why install a high end tank without water heated floors or something

I could see HVAC rentals making some sense as not everyone could afford replacing or repairing a HVAC. Hot water tank is like $1k though and the break even is a few years

People are paying 15k for a 1k water tank. You don't even need a calculator to figure this out

Ponderling

· #7 · 12 mo ago

I moved into my house in 2003, and it had a rental water heater. Looked at it. Was 12 years old. Called and asked what the buy out cost was. Oh - $300 i.e. half the cost of me buying a new tank I would own from Home Depot.
Waited until I bought a new higher efficiency furnace ( the old furnace was dated 1967) before I made my move with the water heater cabal.

What was the removal cost? Oh $120.
How about if I deliver it to your depot? Oh - there is no cost if you do that.

So I bought the new tank the day before the furnace swap, and wrote in that deal that the new gas and b vent work would be done with the furnace changes.

Used the new tank box to aid humping the drained old tank up the basement stairs.

Have checked the sacrificial anode once after 6 years. Just a thin film on it. Not degrded at all. Here there is no corrosive water.

Have drained the bottom of the tank every few years to get sediment out and keep burner efficiency up. Have covered the thing in bubble cost to reduce its stand by heat loss. Half the year the heat loss goes as another way to heat the house though.

When this one dies there will be a day without hot water to remedy that situation

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Beaver101

· #8 · 12 mo ago

Canadians renting a water tank is considered financially illiterate. But but but those who dabble with cryptocoins aren't ... who knew?

m3s

Discussion Starter · #9 · 12 mo ago

Beaver101 said:
Canadians renting a water tank is considered financially illiterate. But but but those who dabble with cryptocoins aren't ... who knew?

You must be from Ontario

Imagine if you put the hot water tank rental fee into apple stock or bitcoin since 2011

You'd literally have 7 figures

Reactions: 2

sags

· #10 · 12 mo ago

Every homeowner I know owns their water heater.

Renters don't want to lug around a water heater everywhere they go, and landlords don't want to deal with old water heaters left behind by tenants.

Beaver101

· #11 · 12 mo ago

m3s said:
You must be from Ontario

... I never said I wasn't from Toronto, Ontario. I always stated that but then what about you? Probably remotely up in the Himalya mountains. And strangely enough, only "Ontarians" are that financially illiterate? Again, who knew?!

Imagine if you put the hot water tank rental fee into apple stock or bitcoin since 2011

You'd literally have 7 figures

... first no need to imagine that when you have a crystal ball. I don't. And I don't care to own either apple stock/crxps along with the other suggested crxps for suckers.

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m3s

Discussion Starter · #12 · 12 mo ago

sags said:
Renters don't want to lug around a water heater everywhere they go, and landlords don't want to deal with old water heaters left behind by tenants.

Then why does the landlord provide HVAC and other major appliances except hot water tank? No other region has hot water tank rental fees in the electricity bill. I have colleagues across the US and not even southern americans are that financially inept

Also doesn't explain why car insurance, electricity, healthcare and everything else appears to be managed by a domestic brand stealership bailed out by the government to build SUVs locally in China, Ontario designed domestically in Korea, Ontario

Ontario has a major corruption problem? Is it the dual education system? Is one for the privileged enlightened class and the other for depraved heathens? Maybe Alberta and Quebec were on to something with the separation idea

KaeJS

· #13 · 12 mo ago

Beaver101 said:
Canadians renting a water tank is considered financially illiterate. But but but those who dabble with cryptocoins aren't ... who knew?

Here you are again, just jumping into other people's threads to take a jab at them.

Once again, contributing absolutely nothing of value to the forum. You only ever post insults, jabs, attacks and/or drama of some form.

And yes, I am going to continue to point this out in every single thread you feel it is necessary to pollute with your trash posts.

Reactions: 1

KaeJS

· #14 · 12 mo ago

m3s said:
You must be from Ontario

🤣🤣🤣

m3s

Discussion Starter · #15 · 12 mo ago

Like why does vehicle insurance cost 10x in Ontario than in the US or Europe?

Are the Ontarian drivers that bad? Is the money all siphoned to Doug Ford?

Why are property taxes and electricity rates so high? Is this the California of Canada?

Reactions: 1

sags

· #16 · 12 mo ago (Edited)

m3s said:
Then why does the landlord provide HVAC and other major appliances except hot water tank? No other region has hot water tank rental fees in the electricity bill. I have colleagues across the US and not even southern americans are that financially inept

Also doesn't explain why car insurance, electricity, healthcare and everything else appears to be managed by a domestic brand stealership bailed out by the government to build SUVs locally in China, Ontario designed domestically in Korea, Ontario

Ontario has a major corruption problem? Is it the dual education system? Is one for the privileged enlightened class and the other for depraved heathens? Maybe Alberta and Quebec were on to something with the separation idea

I doubt most landlords supply HVAC, unless it is newer apartment builders. Our landlord doesn't supply AC and they own 1200 townhouses and apartment units.

The guy who installs and removes our window AC units every year has a busy full time business from customers in rental buildings.

The rest of your post is laughable. Ontario is the beating heart of Canada and contains most of the headquarters for financial institutions and corporations.

Travel around Saskatchewan and tell me what they got. Financially illiterate Ontario...........LOL.

m3s

Discussion Starter · #17 · 12 mo ago

So you pay a fortune and don't even have HVAC?

Even landlords in third world country slums provide HVAC

nobleea

· #18 · 12 mo ago

Seriously, HWT and furnaces are requirements for a rental. Same with toilets. landlord's responsibility. No landlord out here would consider it an appliance that the renter is responsible for.

A/C is optional. We don't provide A/C for our unit.

The whole HWT rental program tried to get off the ground out here a few years ago and fell flat on it's face.

m3s

Discussion Starter · #19 · 12 mo ago

nobleea said:
The whole HWT rental program tried to get off the ground out here a few years ago and fell flat on it's face.

Not sure where you're from.. but sounds like your people worked out the math

The places I'm looking at all have A/C and even major appliances.. which is a bit annoying because I have appliances. But the HWT scam is buried in the Hydro One bill. It's a open ended contract for the tenant

Imagine renting a place and finding out the garbage or internet or whatever was already signed forever and you just have to accept it because it's what Ontarians do

Covariance

· #20 · 12 mo ago

m3s said:
I suspect the builders are getting some kind of benefit from it from the province or the water tank company.

This one is straight forward. They are selling the house and every cent on costs is lost profit. Why would the builder pay for a water tank, heater when someone else is happy to do so? The recurring cost is paid by the eventual home owner.

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