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1. Unnamed police are unaccountable. Many examples of officers in generic uniforms who refuse to say even what department they are with much less their name.
2. See 1.
3. There are reports of people being grabbed off the street without being told they are under arrest. The officers have refused to say where they are taking people when they are being taken.
4. See 3. Many of these arrests are unconstitutional, and most have been released without anything more than misdemeanor charges. This behaviour is completely inappropriate.
1. Show some evidence. As I've said before I've seen the video, and the officer was clearly identified with ID and CPB patches.
2. see above, show evidence.
3. They may have only been detained, not arrested. There is no obligation to tell people where you're taking them.
4. Do you have any evidence of this? Are you aware that police are allowed to detain you on probable cause while they investigate? If they've got enough to lay charges, being detained or arrested is completely acceptable.

It sounds like you've swallowed the left wing narrative.
But you've shown no evidence it's happening.

Do you really think it is unconstitutional to arrest or detain someone when they have probable cause?
Interesting argument.
 

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Do you even look for evidence that contradicts your preferred narrative? Your argument is an example you saw showed uniformed officers. That doesn't disprove that there were un-uniformed officers detaining people.




Probable cause for getting shot in the face, requiring reconstructive surgery?
 

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Do you even look for evidence that contradicts your preferred narrative? Your argument is an example you saw showed uniformed officers. That doesn't disprove that there were un-uniformed officers detaining people.




Probable cause for getting shot in the face, requiring reconstructive surgery?
My "preferred narrative", how pejorative of you.

I agree with your article that the police, particularly some of the US police are overmilitarized.
However I haven't seen ANY evidence of unidentified officers. Even that photo was cropped to hide the ID.
I'm not saying there weren't unidentified officers detaining people, I'm saying that I haven't seen any evidence, and the people repeating these claims haven't provided any evidence.
Sorry, a headline making a claim isn't evidence.

I'd like to point out you made 4 specific claims, I asked for evidence, and you didn't provide the evidence, and thew in an inflamatory video on use of force.

I'm sorry, but since nobody can produce evidence of what you claim, I simply don't believe it's widespread.

It's that simple, you're making these claims, and you're refusing to provide any evidence. Instead you link to opinion pieces, conveniently from a "news source" that just settled a massive claim for defaming a teenager. And follow up with a clip to try and change the topic.

The fact is pretty simple, there are some agitators trying to destroy property, and the government deployed law enforcement to protect it.
 

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What do you call this?




What do you call this? Federal agents without insignia hauling people off the street in rented minivans. It could have been anyone! Would that guy have been within his rights to shoot these agents in self-defense? It could have been a kidnapping.
 

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What do you call this? Federal agents without insignia hauling people off the street in rented minivans. It could have been anyone! Would that guy have been within his rights to shoot these agents in self-defense? It could have been a kidnapping.
What do I call it?
Bad reporting.

It's funny, I fully expected you'd put this clip up. It's one of the most widely shared clips of "unidentified" police. I even mentioned that the most widely share video had been debunked. Did you even look at the video?
You can clearly see the agency identification patch on their left shoulder, and they're clearly marked as Police in bright yellow on front and back.


So you think it's okay to shoot uniformed law enforcement?
 

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Discussion Starter #46
The bad reporting is in the coverage (especially by right wing media) of the Portland protests. Starting even a couple years ago, the right wing was trying to build a narrative of a "disaster" in Portland.

We even had people on this board talking about how insane / out of control the situation in Portland was. So I leaned out the window of my office and saw for myself... nope. Nothing out of control. Just a few people marching around and being loud. I repeatedly posted on this board, years ago, that I was more concerned about the police and what they would do, than any of the protesters. I lived just a few blocks away from where most of this is happening and in previous years, I really never saw anything too crazy happening. Just some loud protesters, and a ton of police dressed like soldiers.

That remains the case today. But the right wing keeps feeding a false narrative of a war zone, which is actually a war zone situation created by police. And now amped up by Trump, by sending in his secret police. He's doing this to disrupt the situation and amp it up.

What MrMatt types don't want you know is that it's specifically the responses from police, DHS cops, and federal cops which has amped up the situation. The drama you see in the footage now is entirely in response to excessive police, and now, secret federal police.

The police (in Portland), both local police and federal, are not help keeping law & order. Instead they have been routinely violating civil liberties, to the point where courts gave restraining orders against police to stop some of their actions.

Police are out of control.
 

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What MrMatt types don't want you know is that it's specifically the responses from police, DHS cops, and federal cops which has amped up the situation. The drama you see in the footage now is entirely in response to excessive police, and now, secret federal police.
Someone should tell the mayor.

I'm still waiting for someone to show evidence of these "secret police".
All I've seen is crappy video of uniformed law enforcement.


It's crazy, the media says one thing, and once you see the video it doesn't resemble what they just said.
Look in this thread with the 2 identified police detaining the man in black.
They're clearly identified, yet the "news" is reporting they are some sort of "unidentified secret police".
 

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Discussion Starter #48
In Portland, people were trying to protest and express their freedom of speech. The full, militarized power of 3 levels of police (local, state, federal) have tried to deprive people of their rights, including doing ridiculous things like detaining journalists, legal observers.

Police are trying so hard to suppress the people. I admire the people of Portland who don't put up with this sh** and know their rights.
 

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What do I call it?
Bad reporting.

It's funny, I fully expected you'd put this clip up. It's one of the most widely shared clips of "unidentified" police. I even mentioned that the most widely share video had been debunked. Did you even look at the video?
You can clearly see the agency identification patch on their left shoulder, and they're clearly marked as Police in bright yellow on front and back.


So you think it's okay to shoot uniformed law enforcement?
They're not uniformed. It doesn't say which department they represent.

I mean...

 

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They're not uniformed. It doesn't say which department they represent.

I mean...

Actually it does, like in the video posted, you can clearly see they're wearing agency patches on their left shoulder.
That's my point, people keep saying "unidentified", but they're identified and in uniform.

It's really like people are operating in an alternate reality. Even people posting the videos are blind to the identification IN THE VIDEO!!
 

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Discussion Starter #54
Americans are seeing first hand what it's like in those "*** hole" countries where authoritarians and strong-men try to suppress the population.

Personally I don't think Trump can suppress this population. He is spinning it as a law and order issue (a manipulative, fake narrative) but here's what this really is: a young generation, and the poor, who have had enough of heavy handed police, being suppressed by police, and Trump's attempts at authoritarianism.

You can shoot more of these protesters, maybe try Martial Law, and demonize them all you want in the right wing media, for all the good it will do you.

Americans are a crazy bunch. I've got news for you ... they aren't afraid to die, and they WILL protest, fight police, and die in the streets. The poor / young / disenfranchised Americans have the numbers. There is an endless number of them, and even if the tanks start rolling out, it won't be enough to stop them.

Thing is, at the end of the day, the protesters have the moral high ground and they know it. They were protesting peacefully, and police kept using illegal practices to suppress them (this is documented in the court cases which have resulted in rulings against police). Trump is breaking more laws by sending federal police and having them grab people off the street. The protesters know their rights under the laws of the United States of America.
 

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Federal officers have been sent out to protect federal property (a federal courthouse) when local and state officials failed to do their duty. Riots, looting, and destruction of property have been going on there for 7 weeks. Why try to spin this into something it isn't?
 

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Discussion Starter #56
Federal officers have been sent out to protect federal property (a federal courthouse) when local and state officials failed to do their duty. Riots, looting, and destruction of property have been going on there for 7 weeks. Why try to spin this into something it isn't?
They are supposed to protect federal property. But that's not what they are doing; they have been seen grabbing people throughout the city. They are breaking the law, and this has been stated by the state's governor and the state's head prosecutor (Attorney General). Even the state's head prosecutor has told the federal police to leave.

Rioting looting etc has not been going on for 7 weeks. They were mostly peaceful protests, but you are hearing a false narrative from right wing media. The angry responses from protesters have been in response to the illegal actions of police -- such as unprovoked tear gas and firing on peaceful protesters who were obeying laws.

The police's abuses over the last few weeks have been so severe that even the courts have put restraining orders on Portland Police. The police are in the wrong.

Rusty, the right wing media is lying to you, and you're believing it. The police have been breaking laws and attacking the protesters for many weeks now. That's why you see these angry reactions from people. The right wing media waits for the police to attack and provoke protesters, then is very selective about filming only this footage.

It's right wing propaganda... don't buy it. To gain an edge in life, you have to think independently and not just believe stories that are told to you, especially by people who have agendas.
 

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Discussion Starter #57 (Edited)
Here's a letter from lawmakers to the head of the federal DHS, demanding he resign. (PDF)

Quoting from this letter:

Your leadership of this Department has been rife with mismanagement, including inciting xenophobia and recently using federal agents to disrupt lawful, constitutionally protected protests. In particular, we cannot accept the Department’s recent use of unidentified federal agents, in military gear, patrolling the city of Portland, Oregon in unmarked vehicles, nor can we accept recent plans to expand this tactic to other American cities.​
. . . we have witnessed horrific scenes of federal agents, under your orders, using force to break up peaceful protests while using police-state tactics to scare citizens and force the people of Portland to submit.
. . .​
The right to peaceably assemble and protest is protected by the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. . . . The people of Portland were protesting police brutality, and you responded to them with further brutality … These are authoritarian tactics that go against the bedrock of our democratic principles.​


^ a good description of the abuses of police. These are peaceful protesters who are being attacked by police sent by the White House.
 

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Yawn, 50+ days of riots, hundreds shot, 10's killed across the US, and people want to defund the police and let rioters burn down government buildings. Oh look, politicians making inflamatory statements for political gain!!
Say it ain't so!

If you're tearing down the fences around the courthouse, you're not a protestor, you're a rioter.
When it's been declared a riot, and you're ordered to disperse, you're a rioter.

I LOVE how you gave up even providing evidence of the "unidentified secret police".
Kind of hard when all the images online show uniformed and identified officers.

These politicians will play these silly games until the mob comes from them.
 

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Matt, you claim that there is identification on those officers. Who are they? Their faces are covered, they don't display identification. There is a patch that I can't make out. Wearing camo like they are in a warzone is not an accidental choice.
 

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The very first protest I ever led was in Onaping Ontario in 1970.
During my lifetime I have never known any government (Ruling Class) to give the lower class anything unless there was a threat of violence.
Can anybody here in these forums show otherwise?
 
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