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Those pro-government organizations which breach the law are said to have some bad apples and you can not tar and attack the organization with the same brush.

Anti-government protesters have some bad apples
 

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Those pro-government organizations which breach the law are said to have some bad apples and you can not tar and attack the organization with the same brush.

Anti-government protesters have some bad apples
I'll believe that when they denounce the violence and extremists in their groups.

ANTIFA itself is a violent organization, it's not a few bad apples, it's the actual organization.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
Why do police have multicam for domestic law enforcement anyway? They look like mismatched wannabee airsofters cosplaying as rogue special forces drop outs.
There's a good reason actually. America has made the military industry one of their largest industries. When the companies who produce all this equipment and technology don't have a war, they sell their stuff to domestic police. In fact, they get government stimulus to do it ... and therefore, many police across the US get billions of dollars of military equipment and toys for free:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/09/why-police-pay-nothing-for-military-equipment.html
How police departments got billions of dollars of tactical military equipment - Marketplace

That's how American police become military-like.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
Are you saying that these Portland protests are ANTIFA?
They are not. MrMatt just consumes a lot of right wing media, so he buys the false narrative they put out.

In the world of the American right, "Free speech" is only available to the right wing. No doubt you've seen those free speech rallies where American nut jobs march around with their guns and threaten the local population. They march onto campuses, down city streets, etc.

But when anyone else does it, they want to outlaw it. Well in Portland you're watching others, besides the far right, exercise free speech.
 

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Setting aside the fact that an ANTIFA organization doesn't exist.

Here's a hint: ask yourself who the leader is. Without a leader, it's not really an organization, and neither is there an overall organized fashion of protesting. There are a number of protesters who call themselves ANTIFA, but there is no organization which is why calling it a terrorist organization just shows the stupidity of the whole thing.

But then again, we're talking about people who use this site: Professional Protesters for Hire starting at $99!, as proof of professional protesters paid to incite violence. Hint: It's a satire site.
https://mainernews.com/satirical-pr...-of-official-warnings-about-leftist-violence/
 

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Does anybody really think that jobs could be shipped off shore and that pension plans could be abandoned without realizing that you would need to impose military law?

This militarization of police has been well planned and purposeful.
 

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Are you saying that these Portland protests are ANTIFA?
Of course not.
But my issue isn't with the protests, my issue is with the violent riots.
It's been widely reported that there is some Antifa presence and activity at the riots.

My issue is that these protestors are not denouncing the violence in their midst.
If they simply marched, without defacing public property, without looting and torching, that would be fine, admirable even.

You even have people saying Antifa doesn't exist. You don't need a published org-chart to exist.
Pretending that there is no violence is very problematic.
 

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Of course not.
But my issue isn't with the protests, my issue is with the violent riots.
We would have to admit that a major majority of these protesters are non-violent.
I agree there are a few bad apples.
Why then are we using such violence against non violent protesters?
Do you think this is being done in order to discourage other people from protesting now or in the future?
 

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We would have to admit that a major majority of these protesters are non-violent.
I agree there are a few bad apples.
Why then are we using such violence against non violent protesters.
Do you think this is being done in order to discourage other people from protesting?
Again, I have no issue with the protests.
I'm against the riots, violence and looting.

But I think the US has a bigger problem with poorly trained, poorly supervised, poorly paid police, and now they're poorly supported.

The best way to help the poor communities is to get the crime out of them.
I can tell you, I would not invest in a city that disbands their police force.
 

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You even have people saying Antifa doesn't exist. You don't need a published org-chart to exist.
Pretending that there is no violence is very problematic.
It doesn't. ANTIFA as a terrorist group is a construction to justify an over-reactionary response. And yes, you do need an org-chart if you want to designate a group a terrorist organization, otherwise everyone and no one could be a member. If they want to specify a specific protest group, then sure. But really, if they want to designate ANTIFA as a terrorist group, they should also do the same for the Boogaloo movement which is just as vague. Boogaloo: The movement behind recent violent attacks
 

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America has made the military industry one of their largest industries. When the companies who produce all this equipment and technology don't have a war, they sell their stuff to domestic police. In fact, they get government stimulus to do it ... and therefore, many police across the US get billions of dollars of military equipment and toys for free:
I know they get surplus equipment. They also repaint that equipment so that it is clearly police. Not desert tan etc

The Secretary of Defense is also concerned

SecDef Wants to Stop Federal Law Enforcement Agents Dressing Like US Troops
 

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They are not. MrMatt just consumes a lot of right wing media, so he buys the false narrative they put out.

In the world of the American right, "Free speech" is only available to the right wing. No doubt you've seen those free speech rallies where American nut jobs march around with their guns and threaten the local population. They march onto campuses, down city streets, etc.

But when anyone else does it, they want to outlaw it. Well in Portland you're watching others, besides the far right, exercise free speech.
Actually I consume a decent amount of media.
Not much of it is really "right wing", it's not like I'm watching Fox news, just mostly watching/reading CTV, National Post, CBC, Philip DeFranco. It's not like Tucker Carlson is even that interesting honestly.
Joe Rogan is also one of my favourites, he's a great interviewer, sure he had Ben Shapiro on(great interview BTW), but he's also had Bernie Sanders, Andrew Yang, Tulsi Gabbard and a lot of other people.

Heck he had the CEO Twitter to discuss tech censorship. I strongly suggest you watch Joe interview someone you're interested in.

I do have a question for you, what media are you watching? Does watching "right wing media" or "left wing media" create a problem?
Don't you think if you're only aware of one side of the debate you'll be misinformed.
 

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Bloomberg: Mayor of Portland Tear Gassed By Federal Agents : "Portland, Ore. (AP) -- The mayor of Portland, Oregon, was tear gassed by the U.S. government late Wednesday as he stood at a fence guarding a federal courthouse during another night of protest against the presence of federal agents sent by President Donald Trump to quell unrest in the city."

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I find this rather disturbing, as someone with close ties to Portland. Trump's White House has sent federal police, even when the city [B]and state[/B] have said the forces are not welcome and should be withdrawn.

This is a direct assault on his political enemies. Trump himself said he would be sending his federal forces into regions controlled by Democrats, and he's prepared a list of cities to launch assaults on. Maybe next, Trump will have the state governor shot? Or perhaps his next move will be to shoot the [URL='https://www.opb.org/news/article/restraining-order-federal-law-enforcement-portland-oregon-protests/']chief prosecutor of the state of Oregon[/URL], perhaps using some of those non-lethal, [URL='https://www.adn.com/nation-world/2020/07/13/police-shoot-portland-protester-in-head-with-impact-weapon-causing-severe-injuries/']skull fracturing munitions[/URL].

This is one of the worst abuses of federal authority I have ever seen. This is a direct attack on the city, to intimidate and suppress dissidents. Right out of the playbook of a third world dictatorship. And we're not talking verbal or rhetorical attack. Trump has sent in specialized troops to "rough up" the city, and score political points with the far right base.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE="james4beach, post: 2096161, member: 53917"]
[URL='https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-23/portland-mayor-jeered-as-he-tries-to-rally-protesters?srnd=premium-canada']Bloomberg: Mayor of Portland Tear Gassed By Federal Agents[/URL] : "Portland, Ore. (AP) -- The mayor of Portland, Oregon, was tear gassed by the U.S. government late Wednesday as he stood at a fence guarding a federal courthouse during another night of protest against the presence of federal agents sent by President Donald Trump to quell unrest in the city."
I find this rather disturbing, as someone with close ties to Portland. Trump's White House has sent federal police, even when the city and state have said the forces are not welcome and should be withdrawn.

This is a direct assault on his political enemies. Trump himself said he would be sending his federal forces into regions controlled by Democrats, and he's prepared a list of cities to launch assaults on. Maybe next, Trump will have the state governor shot? Or perhaps his next move will be to shoot the chief prosecutor of the state of Oregon, perhaps using some of those non-lethal, skull fracturing munitions.

This is one of the worst abuses of federal authority I have ever seen. This is a direct attack on the city, to intimidate and suppress dissidents. Right out of the playbook of a third world dictatorship. And we're not talking verbal or rhetorical attack. Trump has sent in specialized troops to "rough up" the city, and score political points with the far right base.
The state caused the problem by over abusing its power. Lock downs are what caused the riots it was not race. The dem states do not care if they totally destroy their country to get rid of Trump. Who has been planting the skids of bricks in the cities? Trump told the people to liberate their states. If the people were smart they would have hung the senator & those supporting the lock downs & the scamdemic in the streets then return back to normal. All the Dem states are a complete mess even though they leach off of the other states.
 

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Of course not.
Do you have any evidence to support that is happening?


Specifically evidence on any of.
1. Unaccountable
2. Secret Police
3. Disappears
4. Due process.
1. Unnamed police are unaccountable. Many examples of officers in generic uniforms who refuse to say even what department they are with much less their name.
2. See 1.
3. There are reports of people being grabbed off the street without being told they are under arrest. The officers have refused to say where they are taking people when they are being taken.
4. See 3. Many of these arrests are unconstitutional, and most have been released without anything more than misdemeanor charges. This behaviour is completely inappropriate.
 

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Lol but the cops body slamming the French Tim Hortons guy for not wearing a mask was OK...such silly BS here.
 

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Again, he was subdued for resisting police. If you think you can lay hands on a cop without consequence you are delusional.
 

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Discussion Starter #40
Again, he was subdued for resisting police. If you think you can lay hands on a cop without consequence you are delusional.
Right. Try grabbing a cop, and see what happens.

In Portland, it should be noted that protesters are generally doing nothing out of the ordinary when the police come and attack them. They might be marching and yelling but the police attacks (gas, rubber bullets) don't come in direct reaction to any particular aggression.

Even the Mayor (upon getting gassed) remarked that the protesters were doing nothing at the time the United States Government launched the gas attack.

What angers so many people in the US is that the police are carrying out unprovoked attacks. In fact, courts recently stopped the Portland police from using gas, because they were using it so frivolously and excessively.
 
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