Canadian Money Forum banner

121 - 140 of 143 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,001 Posts
Never suggested DIY was better, you're the one making that statement. Just stating a fact that someone going to a hairdresser/barber may not always end up happy with the result.
You state one side and conveniently ignore the other side. THAT is in fact implying your way is better.

Yes, a hairdresser may give you a bad cut but why don't you balance your 'statement of fact' by adding that it is however less likely than a DIYer giving themselves a bad cut. Or would you like to try and argue that a DIY haircut is LESS likely to result in a bad cut?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
3,167 Posts
You state one side and conveniently ignore the other side. THAT is in fact implying your way is better.

Yes, a hairdresser may give you a bad cut but why don't you balance your 'statement of fact' by adding that it is however less likely than a DIYer giving themselves a bad cut. Or would you like to try and argue that a DIY haircut is LESS likely to result in a bad cut?
Nice try but no, how'd I ignore the other side?
Both can have positive and/or negative outcomes. As to the percentages, fill your boots if you want to figure that one out. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,001 Posts
Nice try but no, how'd I ignore the other side?
Both can have positive and/or negative outcomes. As to the percentages, fill your boots if you want to figure that one out. :)
Oh come on cainvest. Do you really want to try and say it isn't obvious which way would result in more poor haircuts? Do you really need some statistical study to tell you the answer to that question? Now you are simply trying to deny the obvious.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
3,167 Posts
Oh come on cainvest. Do you really want to try and say it isn't obvious which way would result in more poor haircuts? Do you really need some statistical study to tell you the answer to that question? Now you are simply trying to deny the obvious.
I don't really care about the stats, all I need to know is this DIY saves me both time and money. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,133 Posts
Longtimeago, I feel you are stereotyping people who DIY as incompetent folks and automatically assume paying someone guarantees better results. This is completely false. And its not only about saving money - I think that's been debated and proved to be false as well.
I could go on to provide many more examples....but you'll just justify it with your own example and ignore mine.
We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Everyone does what they feel makes sense for them. No one is imposing you to change your ways.....but please do not make inaccurate assumptions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,001 Posts
Longtimeago, I feel you are stereotyping people who DIY as incompetent folks and automatically assume paying someone guarantees better results. This is completely false. And its not only about saving money - I think that's been debated and proved to be false as well.
I could go on to provide many more examples....but you'll just justify it with your own example and ignore mine.
We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Everyone does what they feel makes sense for them. No one is imposing you to change your ways.....but please do not make inaccurate assumptions.
Umm, no, I do not think I am stereotyping DIY people Mortgage u/w. If you read this latest DIY haircut exchange of comments I think it is quite clear what I am saying. Some DIYers may do a good job and some may not, I am not suggesting all fall into the 'may not' category at all.

But what I am saying is if someone wants to say, 'you could get a bad haircut from a hairdresser', then it is fair to say that you could get a bad haircut from a DIY job and that the PROBABILITY of which will result in more bad haircuts should be quite obvious to anyone with half a brain. Or as I asked cainvest and I will ask you now, do you want to try and dispute that?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
3,167 Posts
But what I am saying is if someone wants to say, 'you could get a bad haircut from a hairdresser', then it is fair to say that you could get a bad haircut from a DIY job and that the PROBABILITY of which will result in more bad haircuts should be quite obvious to anyone with half a brain. Or as I asked cainvest and I will ask you now, do you want to try and dispute that?
I dispute that by saying that people that continue to use a trimmer to cut their their own hair are happy with the result.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,340 Posts
Last year, one of my sons was talking to me about replacing the deck boards on their backyard deck. The frame was good, he just wanted to rip up the old deck boards and replace them. He had a quote for around $5k (plus new board cost) to do it. He was thinking of doing it himself instead. I asked him how many days he figured it would take him to pry screwed down deck boards up with a crowbar, etc. There is no easy and quick way to remove screwed down decking.
Yes there is. Use a drill. It would take 2 -4 hours. I've done it several times.

Then of course you have to have someway to dispose of the old boards
Put them by the road...someone will come by and take them. I have a 100% success rate using that method.

buy and transport the new boards; and finally, cut and install the new boards. Given the size of his deck, I estimated it would take him a good 7 full days to do all of that.
Laying new boards on existing framing is easy. Even an average DIYer can do that quickly. I just built a 12'x12' deck. Screwing down the decking took 2 hours.

So do the math, if they do it in 3 days for $5k that's $1666 per day for 2 people. Even if he could do it in 6 days (double the time for 2 people) and even ignoring his cost to get rid of the old boards, have the new boards delivered and the sheer hard physical labour of doing it himself, that would mean he valued his own time at $833 per day. That's a significant number for most people and if that is all you looked at you could conclude it was worth the time and effort to do it yourself.
The math for me is that it's probably 2 days of work, $5000 saved. That's over $300 an hour tax free. Screwing down deck boards is not sheer hard physical labour...you're just putting in screws. My non-handy spouse helps me and she has no experience with that type of work.

But what about the time? If he could do it in 6 days, that really means 3 weekends. What is the value of 3 weekends that you lose? Can you put a dollar value on that? It's like 'missed opportunity cost' Here is how you have to think about that...

I'd rather have the 3 weekends than the $5k savings. The only reason to not do so for me would be if I couldn't afford the $5k or I was just a cheapskate.
I'd rather have the 3 weekends than the $5k savings. The only reason to not do so for me would be if I couldn't afford the $5k or I was just a cheapskate.
Invite a couple friends and some family over. Spend a few hours laying deck boards on a Saturday and then fire up the barbeque, feed everyone, and have a couple cold ones. 3 "lost" weekends turn into a nice get together with the satisfaction of a job well done.

My son had the professionals do it by the way. He could afford it.
I could have afforded to have someone build my deck too. But I enjoy doing my own projects, I take pride in my work, and I really like the fact that 2 days of doing something fun saves me $2000 - $3000.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,340 Posts
Feels like learned helplessness is the problem here.
It could be that or it could be that some people think that manual or physical labour is beneath them.

I take pride in my DIY skills...it's not just money saved, it's the satisfaction of a job well done. I can show people our new deck or our new ensuite and after they tell us how nice it looks I can proudly say "I did ALL of that myself".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,528 Posts
DIY haircut have some differences from DIY vehicle maint

First it's harder to cut your own hair than work on your own vehicle. Even hair cutting pros I know have another pro do their hair (I suppose likely cut each other as a trade/favour) Does the Honda mechanic take his Toyota to the Toyota dealer for routine maint? I doubt it

Second you are present for the entire haircut performance by the nature of it being attached to your head. They have incentive to provide whatever extra service, smile or rub they can for the tip. You aren't even permitted to witness the mechanic and you pay him by the job regardless if he cuts corners to finish it in half the time

There is no incentive for a mechanic to do the simple extra things that any DIY will. Pro mechs mess up all the time just because the incentive is to be fast and they can always make an excuse if they mess up because non-DIY vehicle owners likely won't know a head gasket from an axle boot

Also I estimate I've saved $5k on haircuts not to mention the time and aerodynamic gains. Efficiency
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,184 Posts
I am a huge believe in MYOB. If someone wants to cut their own hair, change their vehicle oil, do repairs and painting around the house...whatever who am I to even care let alone try to discern their motivation or calculate their savings or lack thereof.

Not my business. Don't care. don't need to know. Don't need to judge them or their motivations. Good luck to them. I have no doubt that many will be very successful and that it will be viewed by them as a good experience. Each to his own.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,001 Posts
Yes there is. Use a drill. It would take 2 -4 hours. I've done it several times.



Put them by the road...someone will come by and take them. I have a 100% success rate using that method.



Laying new boards on existing framing is easy. Even an average DIYer can do that quickly. I just built a 12'x12' deck. Screwing down the decking took 2 hours.



The math for me is that it's probably 2 days of work, $5000 saved. That's over $300 an hour tax free. Screwing down deck boards is not sheer hard physical labour...you're just putting in screws. My non-handy spouse helps me and she has no experience with that type of work.



Invite a couple friends and some family over. Spend a few hours laying deck boards on a Saturday and then fire up the barbeque, feed everyone, and have a couple cold ones. 3 "lost" weekends turn into a nice get together with the satisfaction of a job well done.



I could have afforded to have someone build my deck too. But I enjoy doing my own projects, I take pride in my work, and I really like the fact that 2 days of doing something fun saves me $2000 - $3000.
Umm, not all decks are created equal Prairie Guy. First of all, a simple 12X12' platform is not the kind of deck I am referring to. That might satisfy you and all you have to do is buy some 12' boards and screw them down.

Take a look at the first two pictures here: Here Comes the Sun: 4 Tips for a Beautiful Deck This Summer - BeautyHarmonyLife
The first is about the size of my son's deck and the second is like the more modern style of the deck only his is integrated to one side of his pool vs. the photo showing a deck integrating around a large tree.

Now tell me how you would remove the boards with a drill when in fact screws that have been in for years often will simply not unscrew and often trying to do so simply results in the screw heads breaking off leaving the screw still in the wood but headless. The ONLY way to remove the boards is to use a crowbar to lever them off and then go back and remove all the screws (about half of them) that were left in the studs rather than pulled up with the deck boards.

Then tell me how quickly you could put the new boards on when the boards are laid on the diagonal, meaning each has to be cut to size. My own deck is about 5 metres x 8 metres (16x26') and is on 3 levels with all 3 levels laid in a different diagonal to the adjacent level. All the outside edges of the levels have a 'frame' (like a picture frame) board around them so that you do not see any cut board ends. Here is a video of what I call a deck and while you can and I have done such decks as a DIY project, you don't do them in 2 days.

As for the $5k I mentioned, that was not including new decking, only the labour and transportation to remove the old and put on the new. My 6-7 day estimate to DIY it, is far from unreasonable. So yes, you could DIY it and save money but the real issue is how do you want to spend your time. You may think it is just a backyard barbecue with family or friends to replace some deck boards but I can assure you that that is not the case with all decks. Your 12x12' simple little platform yes, decks like the above, no.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,866 Posts
Anyway, two days ago my hairdresser phoned me and said they were finally opening up, and asked if I would like an appointment. Of course I would. She went over all the COVID-19 requirements set out by the government, and next week I will be getting my first haircut in about 5 months.

Yep, I'm over over 30, and in fact, I'm in the age 70 crowd, but I still don't want to look like a homeless person.
.

OK, just returned from getting my first haircut after a hiatus of about 5 months.

Man, I look good. In fact, I look around at all you guys and girls with your shaggy gray mops and think you better make an appointment pretty soon before the next wave shuts all the hair salons back down. ;) If not, don't hold out your hands, because someone will think you're homeless and will put a few quarters in it...........

ltr
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,340 Posts
Umm, not all decks are created equal Prairie Guy. First of all, a simple 12X12' platform is not the kind of deck I am referring to. That might satisfy you and all you have to do is buy some 12' boards and screw them down.
It's a little more than a platform of 12' boards screwed down. It's just one part of a 2 level 650 square foot deck and is sized specifically to fit a gazebo that's 139" square.

Take a look at the first two pictures here: Here Comes the Sun: 4 Tips for a Beautiful Deck This Summer - BeautyHarmonyLife
The first is about the size of my son's deck and the second is like the more modern style of the deck only his is integrated to one side of his pool vs. the photo showing a deck integrating around a large tree.

Now tell me how you would remove the boards with a drill when in fact screws that have been in for years often will simply not unscrew and often trying to do so simply results in the screw heads breaking off leaving the screw still in the wood but headless. The ONLY way to remove the boards is to use a crowbar to lever them off and then go back and remove all the screws (about half of them) that were left in the studs rather than pulled up with the deck boards.
A deck that big would take me and 2 others a half day to rip apart.

Then tell me how quickly you could put the new boards on when the boards are laid on the diagonal, meaning each has to be cut to size.
Diagonal isn't hard, I've done it several times. You run the boards a little long then cut off with a saw.

My own deck is about 5 metres x 8 metres (16x26') and is on 3 levels with all 3 levels laid in a different diagonal to the adjacent level. All the outside edges of the levels have a 'frame' (like a picture frame) board around them so that you do not see any cut board ends.
I do the same...picture framing and sometimes a board in the middle for longer spans (at GF cottage for a 24 foot span) so there is not butt joints. I have 3 adjoining decks totaling 650 sq ft. all with picture framing and no end cuts.

As for the $5k I mentioned, that was not including new decking, only the labour and transportation to remove the old and put on the new. My 6-7 day estimate to DIY it, is far from unreasonable. So yes, you could DIY it and save money but the real issue is how do you want to spend your time. You may think it is just a backyard barbecue with family or friends to replace some deck boards but I can assure you that that is not the case with all decks. Your 12x12' simple little platform yes, decks like the above, no.
As stated earlier, I have more than a simple 12x12 platform. My point was that on that one section which I just added it only took me 2 hours to lay the deck boards. A larger deck of up to 600 sq ft would take me a day to lay the deck boards....I'm talking about just laying the deck boards, not building the framing.

I'm assuming you don't know very many people with DIY skills or you wouldn't be so skeptical of what can be done. I shingled my house 2 weeks ago...1300 square feet of roof...bungalow, not steep. It took me and a friend 3 hours to rip off the old roof, pull nails, and lay down water barrier. The next day I started laying shingles alone at 8:00 AM, my brother and his wife came to help at 11:00. We worked until 5:00 and it was done.
 
121 - 140 of 143 Posts
Top