Canadian Money Forum banner

101 - 120 of 143 Posts

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
3,167 Posts
Cainvest, I never said I have no DIY knowledge or experience. What I said was I use professionals when I determine it is not worth my time to do it myself. I have done my fair share of DIYing over the years but only things that I liked to do or that I could do even if I didn't want to do them but could not afford to hire someone to do them when I was young and had less income.

I have seen a lot of DIY jobs as I suspect you also have yourself where they jobs were so obviously DIY jobs that they had to be ripped out and replaced by professionals. I had to remove and replace all the baseboards in the house we now live in. Why because the DIYer who did them, did a lousy job. Like butting two pieces at a corner instead of mitering them. I replaced them myself because I consider it an easy job to do and I enjoyed doing it. Yes, I know the satisfaction of a job well done. That doesn't mean I choose to do every job I am capable of doing though.
Yes both "so called pros" and DIYers are able to do good or bad work. DIY puts most things in your control so generally no surprises afterwards, you know when something is messed up.

The end point being DIY can save you money, time and give you a quality outcome. Whether or not the time spent on the job is worthwhile is up to you.

Oddly enough, I just got back from across the street as my neighbor was having his roof done by a local guy. Got to see his (and his crew's) work first hand and did some "shop talk" with him. He's giving me a quote today. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,001 Posts
I think your missing the point but it’s ok.

Bottom line, don’t knock DIYers or dare call them cheap. It’s got nothing to do with saving time or trying to save money. There will always be good and bad experiences in both scenarios whether you do it yourself or not.
If you took the time to look at how this issue developed on the thread Mortgage u/w you would see that it was DIY proponents who attempted to say that it was BETTER to DIY rather than hire someone to do the job for you. I don't think it is me who missed the point at all.

DIY has ONE supposedly clear advantage and that is about MONEY. But in not wanting to admit that, some try to suggest it is about doing a better job and avoiding unscrupulous auto mechanics etc. That's just nonsense, we all know why people DIY some things like oil changes. It isn't because they get enjoyment out of doing an oil change or any great sense of satisfaction at a 'job well done'. It's about money and not spending it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,001 Posts
Every 2 years I have my riding mower serviced. As per my usual procedure, the first time I did, asked around locally and was soon given the name of a local farmer who is also a qualified Small Engine Mechanic and supplements his income with that.

He arrives with a trailer, drives my mower onto it and off he goes. A couple of days later he returns with it and I pay him $100.

For that he changes the oil and filter, lubricates it (which requires dropping the mower bed off to get at some lube points), puts in a new spark plug, sharpens the blade, re-installs and levels the mower bed and finally gives it a nice wash.

I could do it myself and did do that the first time it needed done after I bought it. Go and buy oil, filter, lubricant, grease gun. Drop and remove the mower bed and then re-install and level it and finally give it a wash. Took me a day, several barked knuckles, some cursing and finally came to an end. Did I feel I was a hero for having been able to do it myself? No, I felt I had simply completed a darned crappy chore.

Is my time better spend doing something else for a day? Absolutely. Is my $100 well spent? Absolutely.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
3,167 Posts
DIY has ONE supposedly clear advantage and that is about MONEY. But in not wanting to admit that, some try to suggest it is about doing a better job and avoiding unscrupulous auto mechanics etc. That's just nonsense, we all know why people DIY some things like oil changes. It isn't because they get enjoyment out of doing an oil change or any great sense of satisfaction at a 'job well done'. It's about money and not spending it.
Sure it can be about money but your blanket statements about it being "only about money" are completely wrong. Those so called nonsense things do happen, as already mentioned in this thread. Can be also about time, pride in the job, using specific products or parts you want, doing it a certain way a shop may not and the list goes on. There are so many things that can come into play, it definitely can be more than just money.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,001 Posts
I'm just shocked you have a riding lawn mower ... who actually uses it? :)
The 'lawn boy', just like the 'pool boy' uses the pool vacuum cleaner. Why would you ask such a silly question?

As for something being just about money cainvest, tell me what else doing your own oil change is about?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
3,167 Posts
The 'lawn boy', just like the 'pool boy' uses the pool vacuum cleaner. Why would you ask such a silly question?
Just wondering why the capital expense when lawn services have their own equipment.

As for something being just about money cainvest, tell me what else doing your own oil change is about?
I have, along with others, given you other reasons for DIY oil changes.

Another DIY example came up yesterday on my dirt bike ride. First ride this year on one of my bikes and had a slight bogging when cracking the throttle. Sure, could have waited and brought it to the shop but instead I adjusted the accel pump timing myself, problem solved. So both time and money saved there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,001 Posts
Just wondering why the capital expense when lawn services have their own equipment.

I have, along with others, given you other reasons for DIY oil changes.

Another DIY example came up yesterday on my dirt bike ride. First ride this year on one of my bikes and had a slight bogging when cracking the throttle. Sure, could have waited and brought it to the shop but instead I adjusted the accel pump timing myself, problem solved. So both time and money saved there.
As a modestly philanthropic kind of person cainvest I like to try and help others. I do not employ a lawn service to cut the grass, I employ a local student. Our current student helper (who we employ for other chores as well as lawn mowing) has been working for us for 4 years now. As he is due to graduate from university after this upcoming student year, we will no doubt lose him and have to find another for next year, just as we found him after losing a previous helper 4 years ago.

We do use a local professional lawn service for weed spraying as that requires more uncommon equipment, chemical mixing, PPE, etc. to be done safely and according to specific standards by law.

As for 'other reasons' for DIY oil changes, you may have given some but that doesn't make them true. People do oil changes to save money. End of story.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
3,167 Posts
As for 'other reasons' for DIY oil changes, you may have given some but that doesn't make them true. People do oil changes to save money. End of story.
Of course money is a factor for DIY and just because you choose to ignore the other reasons for oil changes doesn't make them false. The true end to the story.

Also did a DIY haircut yesterday before my ride, once again both time and money saved. You still waiting for your hair to be cut or did you let the local student give it a shot? :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
962 Posts
DIY haircuts might actually be one of the best examples of saving both time and money. You can cut your hair in about 15 minutes for near $0 (maybe a buck if you count the investment in trimmer, etc)... vs. making an appointment, driving there (gas cost + time), sitting in the waiting area, getting the haircut, paying the bill (min. $25 plus tip), and then driving home.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
962 Posts
It depends on the person, their hairstyle and their skills with a trimmer and scissors. A helper (spouse, etc) could also make the difference between a poor job and one that looks good.

There's also genetics to consider... for a lot of us guys over 30, there's noticeably less hair that needs to be cut. No amount of "salon styling" will hide that fact, and will often have the unintended consequence of making it look even worse.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,866 Posts
for a lot of us guys over 30, there's noticeably less hair that needs to be cut. No amount of "salon styling" will hide that fact, and will often have the unintended consequence of making it look even worse.
Yeah, I can't really agree, along with most everyone else. I can always tell when someone is doing their own hair. Embarrassing to say the least - they just don't know it.

Anyway, two days ago my hairdresser phoned me and said they were finally opening up, and asked if I would like an appointment. Of course I would. She went over all the COVID-19 requirements set out by the government, and next week I will be getting my first haircut in about 5 months.

Yep, I'm over over 30, and in fact, I'm in the age 70 crowd, but I still don't want to look like a homeless person.

I will look so much better than anyone here at CMF who thinks they can cut their own hair.

ltr
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
3,167 Posts
It depends on the person, their hairstyle and their skills with a trimmer and scissors. A helper (spouse, etc) could also make the difference between a poor job and one that looks good.

There's also genetics to consider... for a lot of us guys over 30, there's noticeably less hair that needs to be cut. No amount of "salon styling" will hide that fact, and will often have the unintended consequence of making it look even worse.
You get the hang of using trimmers after a while and in the beginning a helper is a plus or at least someone that'll tell you the truth lol. I've always liked short hair, kind of a long military cut so it's super easy for me to do.

Also going to a hairdresser doesn't mean you'll walk out being happy or the "new style" you wanted looks good to you. Hear that much, much more from women than men though. One male friend had his barber retire and went to a new place ... wow, that was a mistake.:eek:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,340 Posts
You really don't get it do you cainvest. The money goes in the bank. OK, where does the time go? Your assumption remains that the money is worth more than your time. That means you are putting a $ value on your time. So how much is it? $100 an hour, $1000 a day, how much? At what number will you decide that your time is worth more than the money?
I saved $3,000 for 2 days of work. Plus I enjoy doing my own projects and I'm fit enough to spend a day on the roof without being sore the next day. Therefore, $3,000 in my pocket is a win for me. Others might prefer to pay someone to shingle their house and that's perfectly fine.

Last year, one of my sons was talking to me about replacing the deck boards on their backyard deck. The frame was good, he just wanted to rip up the old deck boards and replace them. He had a quote for around $5k (plus new board cost) to do it. He was thinking of doing it himself instead. I asked him how many days he figured it would take him to pry screwed down deck boards up with a crowbar, etc. There is no easy and quick way to remove screwed down decking. Then of course you have to have someway to dispose of the old boards; buy and transport the new boards; and finally, cut and install the new boards. Given the size of his deck, I estimated it would take him a good 7 full days to do all of that. The professionals on the other hand would have 2 people who would rip the old boards off and throw them in their truck in a day. They would then arrive the second day with the new boards on their truck and probably be finished installing them by the end of the third day, job done.

So do the math, if they do it in 3 days for $5k that's $1666 per day for 2 people. Even if he could do it in 6 days (double the time for 2 people) and even ignoring his cost to get rid of the old boards, have the new boards delivered and the sheer hard physical labour of doing it himself, that would mean he valued his own time at $833 per day. That's a significant number for most people and if that is all you looked at you could conclude it was worth the time and effort to do it yourself.

But what about the time? If he could do it in 6 days, that really means 3 weekends. What is the value of 3 weekends that you lose? Can you put a dollar value on that? It's like 'missed opportunity cost' Here is how you have to think about that:
"The concept of opportunity cost may be applied to many different situations. It should be considered whenever circumstances are such that scarcity necessitates the election of one option over another. Opportunity cost is usually defined in terms of money, but it may also be considered in terms of time, person-hours, mechanical output, or any other finite resource."
Taken from here: Opportunity Cost.
Now apply that to what you might do with 3 weekends. Suppose you decided to spend a weekend with your family lazing by your backyard pool and barbecuing, just enjoying some 'quality family time' together. How much is that worth? Can you put a dollar value on it? Suppose you spend the second weekend on a 'weekend getaway', just you and your spouse. How much is that worth in dollars to you? Suppose you spent your 3rd weekend going fly fishing on your favourite river with a couple of buddies. What's the $ value to you of that? You might save $5k by doing it yourself but you will lose the time to do things like those.

I'd rather have the 3 weekends than the $5k savings. The only reason to not do so for me would be if I couldn't afford the $5k or I was just a cheapskate.

My son had the professionals do it by the way. He could afford it.
I could afford to pay someone too. But, if it's just pulling up deck boards and replacing them that's just a day for me, or 2 days if it's a very large deck.

As to family time...that's covered too. Suppose I help my brother build a deck or replace a roof. The family gathers and brings food. A few of us do the work while those who are unskilled, too young, or who shouldn't be on a roof help out by fetching tools, cleaning up, watching the kids, making lunch, etc. My elderly parents relax on a lawn chair in the shade. So, there's is no lost weekend when we take on a project, in fact, it's the opposite. A project is a chance for a family gathering.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,001 Posts
People can self-justify anything and that is what many here are doing with suggestions like DIY haircuts or oil changes. I have no problem with that, but when it then moves on to comments like, "Also going to a hairdresser doesn't mean you'll walk out being happy or the "new style" you wanted looks good to you.", that's when people have moved from simply self-justifying what they do, to implying what they do is BETTER than the alternative.

If someone wants to do a DIY haircut that's fine, go ahead but do NOT try to suggest you will do a better job. I do not think there is any question as to which way results in more obvious bad haircuts.

As it happens, my wife has her first appointment with her hair STYLIST on Wednesday. Suggesting to her that she DIY it or have me DIY it for her would be met with gales of laughter or perhaps a look of horror.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
3,167 Posts
People can self-justify anything and that is what many here are doing with suggestions like DIY haircuts or oil changes. I have no problem with that, but when it then moves on to comments like, "Also going to a hairdresser doesn't mean you'll walk out being happy or the "new style" you wanted looks good to you.", that's when people have moved from simply self-justifying what they do, to implying what they do is BETTER than the alternative.

If someone wants to do a DIY haircut that's fine, go ahead but do NOT try to suggest you will do a better job. I do not think there is any question as to which way results in more obvious bad haircuts.
Never suggested DIY was better, you're the one making that statement. Just stating a fact that someone going to a hairdresser/barber may not always end up happy with the result.
 
101 - 120 of 143 Posts
Top