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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
I have ZRE also. The other 3 I see the price dropping daily.
I guess I have no option now but to hang in for 12 to 18 months.
Thanks for eveybody's input here.

BTW I did contract a fee-advisor and I complete their application online.
I got a quick email back today saying, "looking forward to meeting with you in September."
So no go there.
 

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CI First Asset Canadian REIT ETF - RIT is very good too. It is actively managed so the fee is higher .75% but returns seem a little better than the index.

20280
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Thank You Dubmac. I just hope they don't go down to zero as I have had a couple of stocks do that.
I am in my 70's and can't afford to lose my security. The Reits are in a RRIF so I believe each year I have to sell something for the mandatory withdrawal. I haven't done that yet as I had some cash still sitting in TD money market earning zilch 0.25%.

Thank You Jimmy for that information on that CI and RIT.
 

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Thank You Dubmac. I just hope they don't go down to zero as I have had a couple of stocks do that.
I am in my 70's and can't afford to lose my security. The Reits are in a RRIF so I believe each year I have to sell something for the mandatory withdrawal. I haven't done that yet as I had some cash still sitting in TD money market earning zilch 0.25%.

Thank You Jimmy for that information on that CI and RIT.
On BNN awhile back I recall an analyst saying REITs were really undervalued. I looked at H&R and it is trading at ~ 1/2 its book value - the value of the properties and assets. So if they did go under you would still make $. Lots of safety & you can't go too wrong. As mentioned avoid the ones maybe w lots of retail and commercial office space.
 

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Book value or NAV? Book value would be the depreciated value would it not? I have never considered book value, but do consider NAV (market value of underlying properties). That said, be careful with NAVs of REITs too. They are based on periodic appraisals and REIT NAV doesn't always reflect reality. Of have a significant lag as new appraisals get done. Which is why REITs almost always trade at 80% of NAV or lower sometimes. And sometimes, it gets really silly, e.g. 50% of NAV.
 

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Book value or NAV? Book value would be the depreciated value would it not? I have never considered book value, but do consider NAV (market value of underlying properties). That said, be careful with NAVs of REITs too. They are based on periodic appraisals and REIT NAV doesn't always reflect reality. Of have a significant lag as new appraisals get done. Which is why REITs almost always trade at 80% of NAV or lower sometimes. And sometimes, it gets really silly, e.g. 50% of NAV.
Accounting book value of the equity. I just looked at the P/BV on TMX Money for H& R
 

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from CIBC. Not sure whether their analysis is solid or not this one may be more speculative, but good to see some positive light.
“We believe [funds from operations] is set to rebound in subsequent quarters, given: 1) significant provisions for abatements and bad debts were recognized in the quarter (which account for further predicted abatements), implying that such charges should be more modest going forward; and 2) cash rent collected is trending decidedly upwards (85% to-date in July), with management suggesting that this metric could level off at 90%+ by the end of the year. While occupancy and leasing spreads could see further pressure through year-end, we believe the impact of such will prove to be modest in comparison. Consequently, we believe the units offer significant valuation optionality (38% discount to our NAV)”​
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Oh Thank You for this info dubmac. Yes a bit of encouragement at least. Some light going forward hopefully.

"While occupancy and leasing spreads could see further pressure through year-end, we believe the impact of such will prove to be modest in comparison." I am guessing Google and Spotify that are not renewing their leases and so many small businesses folding. Office space may possibly become a thing of the past, or in less demand with so many companies now telling their workforce to work from home.

I am not sure what CIBC mean by:- "Consequently, we believe the units offer significant valuation optionality (38% discount to our NAV)”

Thanks so much for following up on this dubmac.
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
I finally received a reply from a fee advisor.
After a 30 minute phone call, he quoted me 4K to review my portfolio
$180 an hour and he said will take him 22 hours.
What do you think about this fee?
Is this reasonable?
Its not the 1-2K I was expecting.
Thank you.
 

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I find it difficult to assess the fee without knowing the size of the portfolio. You mentioned TD was going to charge $1,000 a month......so I assume we’re talking about a $1million+ portfolio?
 

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I finally received a reply from a fee advisor.
After a 30 minute phone call, he quoted me 4K to review my portfolio
$180 an hour and he said will take him 22 hours.
What do you think about this fee?
Is this reasonable?
Its not the 1-2K I was expecting.
Thank you.
... what do you have in your portfolio that requires him (exactly) 22 hours to review? An hour per stock? an hour per property? 22M dollars on deposit?

Maybe I'm missing something but what else comes with the "review"? Recommendations to sell/buy/rebalanced or just a fancy coloured report of where you stand?

For sure, I ain't paying $4K for him to just plunk some #s in a spreadsheet even the rate of $180 / hour sounds cheap ... compared to a lawyer. And a previous banking financial/investment "advisor".
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
I find it difficult to assess the fee without knowing the size of the portfolio. You mentioned TD was going to charge $1,000 a month......so I assume we’re talking about a $1million+ portfolio?
No not $1million Portfolio it's only 600K now, some losses and some withdrawals due to RRIF
Still TD want 1.75% to 2% to manage so between 10 to 12K a year.

Here is reply in an email.
I recommend beginning with a review your current financial situation, focusing on income and expenses and building a long-term cash flow model that will help determine how much income your portfolio should provide each year to sustainably fund your retirement expenses. With that information we can determine a reasonable savings rate and and a target rate of return for your investment portfolio.

The plan will also provide you with a recommended target asset allocation and sample portfolio comprised of exchange traded index funds that you can use to achieve the target allocation while reducing fees and taxes. If you choose to implement the recommendations and would like some help placing your initial trades I can be available to assist you using Teams, Zoom or a similar program that allows for screen sharing.

The plan will require 22 hours to complete, (22 hours @ $180 + HST). No deposit is required, we invoice upon delivery of the plan. The next steps would require you to complete a couple of questionnaires, gather your current banking and investment statements and provide the completed documents to me. We generally require a minimum of 2 weeks from receiving the documents to scheduling delivery of the plan, (though lately 3 weeks is a little more common).
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
... what do you have in your portfolio that requires him (exactly) 22 hours to review? An hour per stock? an hour per property? 22M dollars on deposit?

Maybe I'm missing something but what else comes with the "review"? Recommendations to sell/buy/rebalanced or just a fancy coloured report of where you stand?

For sure, I ain't paying $4K for him to just plunk some #s in a spreadsheet even the rate of $180 / hour sounds cheap ... compared to a lawyer. And a previous banking financial/investment "advisor".
He hasn't seen my portfolio yet, so I don't know how he can gauge how many hours to charge me.
It is mostly in Equities and some cash. I have about 30 different equites.
I just bought a variety of stocks that my neighbour suggested after my husband died.
I have been a passive investor, as I was afraid to sell anything, so I lost a couple that way. Some got devalued and less numbers, others just vanished.
Now with things looking more scary I feel I need some expert help.
That is why I approached this company.
 

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He hasn't seen my portfolio yet, so I don't know how he can gauge how many hours to charge me.
It is mostly in Equities and some cash. I have about 30 different equites.
I just bought a variety of stocks that my neighbour suggested after my husband died.
I have been a passive investor, as I was afraid to sell anything, so I lost a couple that way. Some got devalued and less numbers, others just vanished.
Now with things looking more scary I feel I need some expert help.
That is why I approached this company.
... first, don't panic.

I think you should shop around (maybe a couple more, like how you can get quotes for a reno done) while you educate yourself at the same time. Based on your earlier posts, you seemed to be in-tune with these stocks so I don't believe you can't manage the portfolio yourself in the intermittent.

From what I gather from your post #35, it sounds like this advisor is going with the typical "review" like your SWR, blah blah of which you can probably read up on yourself (if you take the time), here or some finance-at-retirement book(s). And that review (based on that last paragraph of the advisor's email reply) comprise basically of feeding your #s into some computer 'models' or spreadsheet and spew out "their recommendations" ... all for a price of $4K + HST plus a 2 to a 3 weeks wait. [I'm surprised he didn't add a special "time limited" blurb there.]

As said, you should wait abit ... read up while getting other quotes. As well as input from other CMRs. If ALTARED (very knowledgeable savvy retired investor here on CMF), you maybe able to pick up enough knowledge to confidently manage your own portfolio (asset allocation, your risk appetite), understand RRIF withdrawals, etc. and say "no thanks" to the advisor(s). Or at least that one.

What I can confirm for you here is that 1.5 to 2% wanted by TD is not unrealistic ... I was quoted "2%" of $250K = $5,000 per year by a full bank brokerage for blue-chip stocks (include buy & sell commissions, whoopie) recommendations, only to be told it's only"$500 per year" (yes trying to mislead, being dishonest).

Other financial "planners" quoted way less than $4K for a comprehensive financial + portfolio review ... (range $1,500 to $2,800, payable one time) ... other work such as wills drafting was subject to open book pricings.
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
... first, don't panic.

I think you should shop around (maybe a couple more, like how you can get quotes for a reno done) while you educate yourself at the same time. Based on your earlier posts, you seemed to be in-tune with these stocks so I don't believe you can't manage the portfolio yourself in the intermittent.

From what I gather from your post #35, it sounds like this advisor is going with the typical "review" like your SWR, blah blah of which you can probably read up on yourself (if you take the time), here or some finance-at-retirement book(s). And that review (based on that last paragraph of the advisor's email reply) comprise basically of feeding your #s into some computer 'models' or spreadsheet and spew out "their recommendations" ... all for a price of $4K + HST plus a 2 to a 3 weeks wait. [I'm surprised he didn't add a special "time limited" blurb there.]

As said, you should wait abit ... read up while getting other quotes. As well as input from other CMRs. If ALTARED (very knowledgeable savvy retired investor here on CMF), you maybe able to pick up enough knowledge to confidently manage your own portfolio (asset allocation, your risk appetite), understand RRIF withdrawals, etc. and say "no thanks" to the advisor(s). Or at least that one.

What I can confirm for you here is that 1.5 to 2% wanted by TD is not unrealistic ... I was quoted "2%" of $250K = $5,000 per year by a full bank brokerage for blue-chip stocks (include buy & sell commissions, whoopie) recommendations, only to be told it's only"$500 per year" (yes trying to mislead, being dishonest).

Other financial "planners" quoted way less than $4K for a comprehensive financial + portfolio review ... (range $1,500 to $2,800, payable one time) ... other work such as wills drafting was subject to open book pricings.
Thank YOU Beaver,
What City or you in? You must have more choice of Fee Advisors where you are. I am in Ottawa and I could only find 2 fee paid Advisors.
I am not sure how to search for them that well so there could be more.
I do believe I can do part of the work myself but I would like some advice what to sell and what to keep.
TD direct investing does indicate but mostly they say Hold or some analysts say Buy and other say Sell on the same stock.
So the TD Wealth management fee for You was 5K or $500 for the year? I didn't get that bit.
 

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Thank YOU Beaver,
What City or you in? You must have more choice of Fee Advisors where you are. I am in Ottawa and I could only find 2 fee paid Advisors.
I am not sure how to search for them that well so there could be more.
I do believe I can do part of the work myself but I would like some advice what to sell and what to keep.
TD direct investing does indicate but mostly they say Hold or some analysts say Buy and other say Sell on the same stock.
So the TD Wealth management fee for You was 5K or $500 for the year? I didn't get that bit.
... no problem.

I'm in Toronto and yes, I have plenty of picks but I'm mostly a DIY (self-taught) investor because I figured no "investment" advisor is going to guarantee your ROR or how well your investments are going to do. They can't even guarantee it for themselves. [I have yet to encounter or read (revelations) on how well those selling investment advisors' portfolios themselves are doing. ] All they can do is 'estimate' it or give you a reasonable target rate. However, that's not to say in the future when I'm older and/or tired, I can't hire a financial advisor to manage it (entirely or a portion - the latter is another option) for me.

Since you mentioned you're mostly a passive investor (mostly holding), you should ignore those TDirect Investing analysts recommendations to H, B or S. You hold for the long term because of the income those dividend stocks (eg. REITS) are providing you in your RRIF (eg. your situation) UNLESS you're in dire need of funds in which case you've no choice but to sell. This is not to say you never sell - there's a point you'll decide to sell ... it's still your decision ... the financial/investment advisor can only make "recommendations". And any financial/investment advisor making such frequent recommendations raise a red flag ... keep in mind buy, holds & sells churn commissions.

The name-less full brokerage (not TD) wanted 2% of assets to manage ($250K in my case) per year which is $5K but he told me at the "interview" stage it was $500 per year despite I questioned that twice ... but wasn't able to verify as didn't have a pocket calculator and my brain wasn't working quick enough ... I was flooded with information and financial lingo ... yeah, confusing.

Anyhow, just wait abit on this thread as I'm sure other CMFrs can provide their input ... or point you to the right direction ... in finding a fee based planner or further self-education.
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
... no problem.

I'm in Toronto and yes, I have plenty of picks but I'm mostly a DIY (self-taught) investor because I figured no "investment" advisor is going to guarantee your ROR or how well your investments are going to do. They can't even guarantee it for themselves. [I have yet to encounter or read (revelations) on how well those selling investment advisors' portfolios themselves are doing. ] All they can do is 'estimate' it or give you a reasonable target rate. However, that's not to say in the future when I'm older and/or tired, I can't hire a financial advisor to manage it (entirely or a portion - the latter is another option) for me.

Since you mentioned you're mostly a passive investor (mostly holding), you should ignore those TDirect Investing analysts recommendations to H, B or S. You hold for the long term because of the income those dividend stocks (eg. REITS) are providing you in your RRIF (eg. your situation) UNLESS you're in dire need of funds in which case you've no choice but to sell. This is not to say you never sell - there's a point you'll decide to sell ... it's still your decision ... the financial/investment advisor can only make "recommendations". And any financial/investment advisor making such frequent recommendations raise a red flag ... keep in mind buy, holds & sells churn commissions.

The name-less full brokerage (not TD) wanted 2% of assets to manage ($250K in my case) per year which is $5K but he told me at the "interview" stage it was $500 per year despite I questioned that twice ... but wasn't able to verify as didn't have a pocket calculator and my brain wasn't working quick enough ... I was flooded with information and financial lingo ... yeah, confusing.

Anyhow, just wait abit on this thread as I'm sure other CMFrs can provide their input ... or point you to the right direction ... in finding a fee based planner or further self-education.
Thank You again. Much appreciated.
 
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