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That's an interesting question. If any of the 6 had the virus and everyone was socializing indoors, how would that compare to being in a busy transportation station outdoors.
According to our chief provincial public health officer, long term indoor exposure is nearly the absolute worse case senario ... very high infection transfer rates. Of course that assumes at least one person is infected.
 

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Agree, that's my guess. You're done if any of those 6 is carrying the virus.

ltr
Done is the right word.

In my opinion, the transit situation is a good place to get a mild or almost benign infection. The dinner party is a perfect place to send you directly to the ICU. The difference in dosage of infections that can occur is that great, in my opinion.

I have said it before but it does need repeating often. Christmas will be deadly this year.
 

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Done is the right word.

In my opinion, the transit situation is a good place to get a mild or almost benign infection. The dinner party is a perfect place to send you directly to the ICU. The difference in dosage of infections that can occur is that great, in my opinion.

I have said it before but it does need repeating often. Christmas will be deadly this year.
I totally agree. Everyone sitting around for hours indoors "speaking moistly" to each other is literally the recipe for getting this virus if anyone at the gathering has contracted it. A silent killer.

Alternatively, walking by someone at a transit station, where both are wearing masks, while the wind is blowing, isn't even on the same level.

ltr
 

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According to our chief provincial public health officer, long term indoor exposure is nearly the absolute worse case senario ... very high infection transfer rates. Of course that assumes at least one person is infected.
I agree this looks risky. I recommend running an indoor HEPA filter if you have one. I have a portable HEPA unit and have it running when my bubble-friend comes over. So I've cut down my social contacts to 1, and am still cautious even with that one.

COVID-19 is now known to be airborne. Unfortunately it's not enough to just leave 2 meters between people. What seems to happen is that the virus ends up in a misted aerosol, which hangs in the air. So if it's the middle of winter and everyone is inside a house, and there isn't any ventilation, aerosol (potentially with the virus) builds up in the indoor air.

One solution is ventilation with open windows, but that's very tough in Canada. We just have to reduce the mix of non-bubble people hanging out in the same space... it's really the only thing that can be done.

I am not gathering with my family/parents at Christmas. This would be an insane thing to do under the circumstances. Sure I like Christmas and New Year, but I like seeing my parents alive much, much more.
 

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The airports in the US are packed. The airlines are adding more flights. The reason people are flying........i want to visit my family.

Okay then........off you go.
 

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The airports in the US are packed. The airlines are adding more flights. The reason people are flying........i want to visit my family.

Okay then........off you go.
Yes, the US Thanksgiving is going to create an explosion in cases. At this point we just have to pray that it doesn't somehow spill across the border.
 

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Masks or no masks Canada is not too far behind the USA in infections. Since we are back in line with the peanut gallery for the vaccine we may surpass the USA on per capita positivity eventually. With our health leader Patty Hajdu setting the example

Trudeau health minister flew friendly skies more than thought during COVID lockdown

setting new records should be a foregone conclusion.
I think we’re doing a LOT better than the US. They have 4 times the number of cases per capita and double (almost triple) the deaths per capita. As bad as it’s made to sound in Ontario, it doesn’t compare at all to the US.
A84E282E-D575-4A38-9EA0-9F1E249835D9.png
 

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We are doing better than the US. I've been watching the deaths per capita figure since the the start of the pandemic. I watch the ratio of Canada to US.

Early in the pandemic we were around 55% of the US death rate per capita. That reduced to 50% and was quite stable for a while. In recent months we've been dropping. Currently, Canada has 302 deaths per 1M and US has 792 deaths per 1M .... so this ratio is now down to 38%

There is nothing good about how the US is handling COVID. A total disaster and just wait for the fallout from their Thanksgiving. Those numbers will emerge by around December 10.
 

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I think we’re doing a LOT better than the US. They have 4 times the number of cases per capita and double (almost triple) the deaths per capita. As bad as it’s made to sound in Ontario, it doesn’t compare at all to the US.
Canada is way ahead of much of the world.
Specifically the US, it's not even close, there are only a handful of states that are doing better than the worst of the Canadian Provinces.


For the Ontario bashers out there, look at the data.
Yeah things could be better, but to be fair Toronto is very built up, the built environment and lifestyle is designed for lots of interaction, which gives lots of diesease spread.

That is part of the reason NYC was hit so hard.
Bad environment, new situation with little knowledge and it was bound to be bad.

Throw in the disastrous political situation and it was bound to be a mess.
Toronto-Ontario-Federal managed to avoid that.
Despite Tory and Ford with their political "history", it was nothing like the politics in New York
 

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A fairly quick study from Kansas, where masks were mandated in 24 counties and were not mandated in 81 counties. They measured the differences in infections per 100,000 people. Keep in mind that just before the mask mandate the counties that were mandated were worse. Their trajectory was considerably uglier.

That said, it is a short study and as I have said, nothing in it talks about the benefits of reducing the severity of an infection obtained by a healthy person who was infected. Another point that probably helped the masked group is just the implementation of a restrictive mandate possibly has a waking up effect for other precautions, that might soon start to dissipate. I don't think I have seen any other situations where masks use illustrated such a positive result. It was a summer study. I think they measured infections from July 3 to August 17. I doubt a mask is going to completely reverse what is going on today but I am absolutely positive, they help considerably.
 

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Another point that probably helped the masked group is just the implementation of a restrictive mandate possibly has a waking up effect for other precautions, that might soon start to dissipate.
It's interesting, and on the surface would be a slamdunk on the effectiveness. It would be interesting to see a follow-up as it was mentioned that schools were being reopened in mid-August which could possibly lead to another spike in cases. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/pdfs/mm6947e2-H.pdf

Actually, the cases are going up, but it would be interesting to see if there is any difference at this point: COVID-19 Cases in Kansas | KDHE COVID-19
 

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As I have said before, it is unlikely the use of masks, which only protect people for the 2% to 50% of their waking day that they might have one on, is unlikely to overcome the negative effect of non-mask wearing people gathering indoors.

This Kansas study seems to show a little bit more benefit then even I think mask wearing would do with respect to only looking at infection reduction benefits. I think in Eder's study the mask wearing showed a very small benefit that we were supposed to assume was just a negligible benefit.

I would just say that masks will provide a small benefit, with respect to infections, and a much larger benefit with respect to the severity of any infection received, while a mask was on. This is mainly because more time is spent without a mask on then with a mask on and just about everyone that wears a mask, does it improperly. Things could be improved but very little is going to overcome the most dangerous activity; gathering indoors without a mask on. That needs to stop if we want to get control of this thing.
 

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That is part of the reason NYC was hit so hard.
Bad environment, new situation with little knowledge and it was bound to be bad.
A lot of international travel, too. NYC's infection was seeded mainly from Europe. It's a similar story with Toronto.

Throw in the disastrous political situation and it was bound to be a mess.
Toronto-Ontario-Federal managed to avoid that.
Despite Tory and Ford with their political "history", it was nothing like the politics in New York
Canada has a fairly normal, non-dysfunctional political environment. Any reasonably competent leader could have done the obvious things to help manage the pandemic, and other levels of government were eager to work together and opposition parties and the public were very supportive and accommodating. In the US, Trump failed the test of leadership, despite the bar being so very, very low.
 

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A fairly quick study from Kansas, where masks were mandated in 24 counties and were not mandated in 81 counties.
Interesting to see data like this come out. Of course it is very difficult to determine effectiveness of only one measure when so many variables are at play. People's behaviour due to the mandated masks could play a big role as well as additional controls that were put in play like ..

Thirteen (54%) mandated counties and seven (9%) nonmandated counties had implemented at least one other public health mitigation strategy not related to the use of masks (e.g., limits on size of gatherings and occupancy for restaurants).
 

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Interesting to see data like this come out. Of course it is very difficult to determine effectiveness of only one measure when so many variables are at play. People's behaviour due to the mandated masks could play a big role as well as additional controls that were put in play like ..

Thirteen (54%) mandated counties and seven (9%) nonmandated counties had implemented at least one other public health mitigation strategy not related to the use of masks (e.g., limits on size of gatherings and occupancy for restaurants).
Absolutely. I don't think we are going to see a study on mask use, that we all can agree gives us a non-arguable conclusion. For this reason, I have been asking people to simply use their common sense. There is nothing more we can do. Absolutely proving the benefits of masks is a very difficult nut to crack.

Most of us, I believe have done that, and it has shown the correct course of action. I believe it is the people who have gone out on a limb against mask use, in the past, or just do not want to wear one, that seem to keep looking for something that tells them they don't need to wear one. It is unlikely they will find it but let me know if you find something that looks close to it.
 
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