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^ This was an itinerant teacher so not sure she/he belongs to an union. And even so, optics on the "union" to support a criminally charged employee say alot about them/union. I think the union should start worrying about the students plus other colleagues on being infected.
 

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Discussion Starter #902

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Recent studies here and elesewhere in the world have shown that we can protect ourselves more efficiently from airborne virus by wearing a 3-layer mask that includes an inner unwoven polypropylene filter with tightly woven cotton on each side.

More here from GOC: COVID-19 non-medical masks and face coverings: Sew and no-sew instructions - Canada.ca

These polycarbonate filters wont hack it
I posted on in this thread (the first 7 or 8 pages). With the increase in numbers, i Have started wearing a filter in my masks when I am out in stores for a little more protection. (Yes, I realize the masks are protect others, but there is some protection to the wearer. There are a lot more masks and materials available now. for filters, you can still get the P2.5 at many places,

In terms of effectiveness of filtering
N95s are still in Shorter supply and should be left to medical community
KN95s are supposed to be the equivalent but not certified the same way. They are more abainle even at my costco.
For filters in the reusable which is what is being recommended. P2.5 > homemade helpa filter (from vacuums or furnace filter but please research> blue shop towels > coffee filter > paper towel.

I am still waiting for my clear kick started mask with a N95 filter, but it has been delayed. As the cases increase, we are doing are best to balance maintaining a ‘normal’ life in the safest way possible. That includes social distancing, staying outdoors, limiting time extended time with anyone outside our family (which is hard with school and we choose some extra curricular activities), hygiene, and then masks.
 

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Discussion Starter #904 (Edited)
I ordered a pack of masks with filter pockets as well as a supply of filters from Etsy. The masks were about $6.50 each on sale. Search Etsy for masks canada filter pocket and you get dozens of hits. Ours are from everbeautycrafts.
Polypropylene filters are from Buyhomeland and about 90c each. Face Mask Filter Inserts-Polypropylene N95 Medical Grade | Etsy

Both local Ontario suppliers and shipping is free.

We still have our 2 layer cotton/polyester masks and may keep some of them in cars as backup.
 

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I'm still wearing the disposable surgical mask type (non medical), which come in boxes of 50s and are triple layer synthetic fabric. As I understand it, these are believed to be reasonably good. The ones I've seen at London Drugs are always either 3 layer or 4 layer.

I also wear 3 layer cloth (cotton) masks, especially some thick tightly woven ones.

And to clarify... absolutely, the masks do protect the person wearing them. I think it was a big mistake for health officials to tell us, for so long, that masks don't protect us. I think it would have been reasonable to speculate that masks protect the wearer. From the moment COVID appeared, my doctor friends told me that masks should protect us somewhat. More recently the CDC has finally said that yes, wearing a mask does protect you from catching it, to some degree.
 

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I'm still wearing the disposable surgical mask type (non medical), which come in boxes of 50s and are triple layer synthetic fabric. As I understand it, these are believed to be reasonably good. The ones I've seen at London Drugs are always either 3 layer or 4 layer.

I also wear 3 layer cloth (cotton) masks, especially some thick tightly woven ones.

And to clarify... absolutely, the masks do protect the person wearing them. I think it was a big mistake for health officials to tell us, for so long, that masks don't protect us. I think it would have been reasonable to speculate that masks protect the wearer. From the moment COVID appeared, my doctor friends told me that masks should protect us somewhat. More recently the CDC has finally said that yes, wearing a mask does protect you from catching it, to some degree.
... to be fair to 'these health officials', they weren't sure at that time if masks would be effective if worn incorrectly plus they were afraid of the public hoarding N95 masks.

At this point in time, for whichever 'health official' to state wearing a mask or some sort of mouth covering does not help the 'wearer' at all, then they should have their professional licence taken away.

And for the whiny 'anti-maskers', consider yourself lucky to be able to wear a cloth mask instead ... next time we might have to wear a gas-mask or maybe no mask at all (ie mankind annihilated)
 

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And to clarify... absolutely, the masks do protect the person wearing them. I think it was a big mistake for health officials to tell us, for so long, that masks don't protect us. I think it would have been reasonable to speculate that masks protect the wearer. From the moment COVID appeared, my doctor friends told me that masks should protect us somewhat. More recently the CDC has finally said that yes, wearing a mask does protect you from catching it, to some degree.
What was amazing to me was how many people just blindly believed the government that masks provided no protection to the wearer. I know it was difficult to assume that the Canadian Health Leaders would mislead us (they did have important reasons why they did this) but to think that you only have 3 vulnerable areas that the virus can attack you and then to assume putting something between those openings and the virus, would not help, is pretty sad. I yelled this so many times on boards like this one; you don't need a PhD to prove to you that 2+2=4 but many still needed someone to prove this to them. How can something that covers up your only vulnerable spots not help. This was common sense. Why did so many Canadians have so little of it?

I imagine there was lot of wishful thinking going on here, as well, since I understand that people would rather not wear a mask, and to some, they felt it made them look like a coward. So childish. Would you not put a house between you and a bear that might wander into your backyard? Does that make you a coward? It makes you a person using your brain, dealing with the threat at hand. That is all it shows.

Anyway, if I did not see the behavior of people, during this pandemic, I would not have believed it. It has taught me a lot.
 

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What was amazing to me was how many people just blindly believed the government that masks provided no protection to the wearer. I know it was difficult to assume that the Canadian Health Leaders would mislead us (they did have important reasons why they did this) but to think that you only have 3 vulnerable areas that the virus can attack you and then to assume putting something between those openings and the virus, would not help, is pretty sad. I yelled this so many times on boards like this one; you don't need a PhD to prove to you that 2+2=4 but many still needed someone to prove this to them. How can something that covers up your only vulnerable spots not help. This was common sense. Why did so many Canadians have so little of it?

I imagine there was lot of wishful thinking going on here, as well, since I understand that people would rather not wear a mask, and to some, they felt it made them look like a coward. So childish. Would you not put a house between you and a bear that might wander into your backyard? Does that make you a coward? It makes you a person using your brain, dealing with the threat at hand. That is all it shows.

Anyway, if I did not see the behavior of people, during this pandemic, I would not have believed it. It has taught me a lot.
There has been so little common sense. I was posted about masks and filters at the beginning of the thread, and said homemade ones offered protection for others and the wearer. I got into heated arguments with LTA, that there was no proof. I think he was the same person that argued about bears should never be in your area. Missing the point totally

People want clinical studies, but if you think of what that meant early on, it didn't make sense. It would require some people to willingly expose themselves with and without masks to see who caught the virus. As I was listening to our Chief of emergency services, he said you to could wait for these double blind clinical studies, but it will be too late by then, or use some common sense. Wearing a masks at that time was confirmed to protect others, and it made sense it would protect the wearer. Does it matter if it's 94% or 70%? That's more than 0.

I find it frustrating at how poorly some peoples critical thinking skills are. Especially anti-maskers. I have heard the argument that there were very few cases in march and people weren't required to wear masks, but now people have to wear masks, and there are more cases everyday. I have even had someone try to tell us that masks are increasing the transmission of the virus. I try to explain, that if we didn't have masks that we would have more cases now. In the early days, there were just less cases because people were locked down and staying at home.

As my kid has told others who have made fun of her for wearing masks (where it is recommended but voluntary), she is protecting them out of respect. They really dont deserve her consideration for being so selfish.
 

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The other one I was surprised about is the dominance of peer pressure among the adult community. We know how powerful it is to our youth but I was completely surprised how many people will do the wrong thing, when it comes to Covid-19, only because someone more dominant thinks they should. Even when they know better, they will still go the gathering, or they will still take off their mask because the others are not wearing one. I can sympathize with the ignorant to some degree, but that behavior surprised me a lot.
 

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The other one I was surprised about is the dominance of peer pressure among the adult community. We know how powerful it is to our youth but I was completely surprised how many people will do the wrong thing, when it comes to Covid-19, only because someone more dominant thinks they should. Even when they know better, they will still go the gathering, or they will still take off their mask because the others are not wearing one. I can sympathize with the ignorant to some degree, but that behavior surprised me a lot.
... not at this point in time (about 11 months into a pandemic) - no sympathy and no surprise on people behaviour(s).
 

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Well heres the 1st actual clinical study of masks ...theres another one completing Dec 2 from another source.
This one was testing only the safety from Covid on the mask wearer...it seems to contradict some recent claims.

 

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Well heres the 1st actual clinical study of masks ...theres another one completing Dec 2 from another source.
This one was testing only the safety from Covid on the mask wearer...it seems to contradict some recent claims.

Interesting study; however, the main problem I would have is the lack of adherence to the mask wearing:

Adherence
Based on the lowest adherence reported in the mask group during follow-up, 46% of participants wore the mask as recommended, 47% predominantly as recommended, and 7% not as recommended.

Less than half actually wore the mask as instructed. It's not clear if that means the others weren't wearing masks all the time, or weren't wearing them properly.
 

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Well heres the 1st actual clinical study of masks ...theres another one completing Dec 2 from another source.
This one was testing only the safety from Covid on the mask wearer...it seems to contradict some recent claims.

First of all. A mask does not guarantee that the wearer will not be infected. I have never stated that a mask can do that and I don't think too many people who understand them, ever have either. A masks purpose for the mask wearer will be to reduce the dose of the infection that they get, which will help them dramatically in their fight to survive the infection. I always assumed that when it came to protecting the healthy person from infections with a mask, that there might be a small few protected, but not many. Lowering the dose is all they can do well...and that is all you really need from them.

2ndly, if you don't wear the mask, it does not work. We have no idea how any of these people were infected.

3rdly: Measuring antibodies does not really help for this experiment. I have always said that a low dose infection is similar to a vaccination. That is what mask wearing, on the healthy person, will do. Make low dose infections from what otherwise might have been a much larger deadly dose infections, and also provide some immunity through anti-body generation. I thank this study for confirming this for me.

4thly, the real benefit of masks is when everyone wears them, as opposed to most people wearing them and others still fighting it. When both the sick and the healthy are wearing masks, the prevention of infection will start to be seen.

Lastly, and this point turns their experiment into a muted point. Since we can never really know who is the infected person and who is the healthy person, WE ALL MUST WEAR A MASK when we cannot be sure of maintaining a social distance.
 

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Interesting study; however, the main problem I would have is the lack of adherence to the mask wearing:

Adherence
Based on the lowest adherence reported in the mask group during follow-up, 46% of participants wore the mask as recommended, 47% predominantly as recommended, and 7% not as recommended.

Less than half actually wore the mask as instructed. It's not clear if that means the others weren't wearing masks all the time, or weren't wearing them properly.
If you've been involved in anything involving people.
Compliance and failure to do whatever it is properly are very common.

Almost every task you can imagine isn't done "properly".

That's the military logic behind exacting precise standards on stuff.. train people to do things right.
 

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I'm still wearing the disposable surgical mask type (non medical), which come in boxes of 50s and are triple layer synthetic fabric. As I understand it, these are believed to be reasonably good. The ones I've seen at London Drugs are always either 3 layer or 4 layer.

I also wear 3 layer cloth (cotton) masks, especially some thick tightly woven ones.

And to clarify... absolutely, the masks do protect the person wearing them. I think it was a big mistake for health officials to tell us, for so long, that masks don't protect us. I think it would have been reasonable to speculate that masks protect the wearer. From the moment COVID appeared, my doctor friends told me that masks should protect us somewhat. More recently the CDC has finally said that yes, wearing a mask does protect you from catching it, to some degree.
A recent Danish study showed limited protection to the wearer. One must also factor in a potential increase risk to the wearer - self contamination, false sense of security, etc. You don't have to go very far to see people handling their masks inappropriately, etc. People are touching their faces more than ever. It helps but is definitely not a substitute for social distancing, limiting unnecessary travel, etc...
 

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The important takeaway from this study is that the participants wore high-grade surgical masks.

The cheap paper masks made in a Chinese sweatshop are obviously nowhere near as effective The cloth mask worn as a fashion accessory even less so .
 

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The important takeaway from this study is that the participants wore high-grade surgical masks.

The cheap paper masks made in a Chinese sweatshop are obviously nowhere near as effective The cloth mask worn as a fashion accessory even less so .
From the article:
They received 50 three-layer, disposable, surgical face masks with ear loops (TYPE II EN 14683 [Abena]; filtration rate, 98%; made in China)

The lack of adherence is a problem. It's pointless not to segregate the results from those who actually used the masks as directed, vs those who didn't. In other words, they should have separated the results from the 46% who actually followed protocol vs those who didn't (but issued instructions) vs those who didn't wear masks to make it a useful study.
 

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A recent Danish study showed limited protection to the wearer. One must also factor in a potential increase risk to the wearer - self contamination, false sense of security, etc. You don't have to go very far to see people handling their masks inappropriately, etc. People are touching their faces more than ever. It helps but is definitely not a substitute for social distancing, limiting unnecessary travel, etc...
I visited two stores today and saw many people with their noses uncovered by their masks. One of these people was wiping their nose with their hand while the mask dangled below.
 

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I have stated many times that masks are one of a few things that could use a training lesson. This could possibly be done with signs but TV might work good as well. There is also video streaming but I doubt a person who is willing to NOT cover their nose, would take the time to download anything. Obviously the anti-nosers know full well they are not doing it right.

My training snip its would look like this: (this is not rocket science)

NOTE: Mouth/Nose transmission directly to the Mouth/Nose of another, is the most dangerous and deadly form of infection that one will receive during this pandemic. If one exposes themselves to this type of virus transmission, for a prolonged amount of time, anyone, of any age, of any health status, can become very ill, experience long term disability and may die. Social distancing (SD) is the best way to prevent this, but whenever SD cannot be maintained a mask should be used by all.

1) A mask should be of a multi-ply fabric, if possible. Cotton works well. It should fit well over your nose and chin and the more one can prevent air from flowing through the sides, the better.

2) Never touch the front of the mask where your mouth and nose are. If a mask needs to be repositioned, it should be done from the edges and done as little as possible.

3) A mask should be able to allow for normal breathing.

4) A mask should be removed from your face as soon as social distancing can be resumed. When removing the mask, look down, shut your eyes, hold your breath, remove the mask slowly from one ear to the next, holding only the straps. Now disinfect your hands.

4) A mask should be changed as frequently as possible.

5) Used masks should not be reused for a minimum of 10 days or they should be washed with soap and water.

6) Most Important: A mask cannot prevent infection to the healthy wearer. It can only reduce the severity of the infection one might obtain to a less harmful, more manageable infection that your body may be able to deal with. Therefore, it is imperative that you use them when social distancing cannot be assured and that you reduce the time, within proximity of others, to as short as possible, EVEN WHEN WEARING A MASK.

Added: Keep in mind that if your mask stopped any viral transmission, not only will it be covered in active Covid-19, but also contaminated will be your clothes and especially your shoes. Outdoor clothes should not be worn throughout your living quarters and hands should be washed/disinfected each time you touch your outdoor shoes.
 
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