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No one is perfect MrMatt and I know of no political party or system of government throughout history who have not got some things right and some things wrong. So what is the point of saying you would like to see politicians 'just once' not make a mess of things? You are in fact saying, no politician ever got anything right. Really?

Your comment is pointless really isn't it.
I feel on many issues issues Governments cause more problems than they solve.

Sure they have a legitimate role in society, but they're failing in their fundamental responsibilities, while continuously expanding into areas where they are not needed.
 

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I feel on many issues issues Governments cause more problems than they solve.

Sure they have a legitimate role in society, but they're failing in their fundamental responsibilities, while continuously expanding into areas where they are not needed.
MrMatt, the same things were being said about the Roman Senate in the days of the Roman Empire.

Remember the definition of insanity. Doing(or saying is equally as good) the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Complaining about governments or politicians over and over again is in my opinion a definition of insanity. We have quite a few posters in this forum as you know, who do just that.
 

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LTA the squeaky wheel gets the grease. The pen is mightier then the sword. Pulitzer prize began with fake news that started a war. I have not read all of MrMatts posts though all the ones I have read have been of independent thinking & speak of truth. Everyone makes mistakes though that is different then intentional lies which the media is feeding us concerning COVID

My thinking is Baits has a monopoly on global health, has poly ticks in pocket & controls much of the media has managed to shut down the world economy. The lone wolfs that do not memorize & repeat but instead speak up for what they believe is good & true are the real hero's.

When I was a kid & watched a war movie I always wondered how Hitler could lead & the sheep follow. Now I am seeing it happen before my eyes. It will be interesting to see if the plandemic goes to the next stage of Certificate Of Vaccine ID (COVID) & puppet tracing. The vaccines which the drug companies have immunity from if they screw up will kill more then Hitler's gas chambers?

You have to ask yourself do you feel lucky when it is time for you get your vaccine shot
 

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Not sure how this went from a thread about proper use of masks, to political ramblings.

On the mask topic: I'm still using masks when I go shopping. Yesterday I was at a self-checkout station at Walmart. One of the employees came right up to my face (under 1 meter) and pitched their store credit card, or something. Practically spitting in my face -- I was very unhappy about that. She wasn't wearing a mask, but I was.

These masks might only be partially effective, but I'll use any extra protection I can get.

Imagine now, if she was wearing a mask too (as she should be). Then both of us would have increased protection.
 

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My neighbour would have said in a very loud voice "Back off". Don't tolerate anyone breaking the distancing rules if it is reasonable to meet them, especially from a business employee who has to know better. It is plain ignorant.
 

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MrMatt, the same things were being said about the Roman Senate in the days of the Roman Empire.

Remember the definition of insanity. Doing(or saying is equally as good) the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Complaining about governments or politicians over and over again is in my opinion a definition of insanity. We have quite a few posters in this forum as you know, who do just that.
I'm not sure what you're saying.
Are you saying that since democracy has had problems for thousands of years, we should try something else?

I think, despite the flaws, we should continue trying to do better than we have in the past. Through education and an informed populace, I think democracy and respect for human rights is the way forward.

I'm simply concerned about the increasing restrictions on speech, and a rejection of human rights by the modern progressives.
 

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James........my wife was out today picking up a few groceries and she said the same thing. Customers aren't wearing masks and neither are the employees.

My son went through the Wendy drive thru and said the employees weren't wearing masks or gloves.

I figure a second wave is a certainty and we will be in another lock down situation until a vaccine is found.
 

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Thanks sags. This is not great news.

Unfortunately, people have very short memories. And by "short" apparently they can't even remember 2 weeks ago?

AltaRed is correct, and I should be more assertive about keeping people out of my space, but it's an uphill battle if the masses have now thrown caution to the wind just because they are no longer afraid.
 

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Democracy is working just fine. The Liberals are enacting the policies they got elected on.

I don't know why Conservatives expect the Liberals would care about Conservative priorities.
 

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Thanks James. Back on topic. The Canadian government issued a recommendation today that everyone wear facemasks even homemade ones. They have said even though there are no scientific studies that some protection is better than none.

Thanks sags. This is not great news.

Unfortunately, people have very short memories. And by "short" apparently they can't even remember 2 weeks ago?

AltaRed is correct, and I should be more assertive about keeping people out of my space, but it's an uphill battle if the masses have now thrown caution to the wind just because they are no longer afraid.
I had to run out for a few things. I noticed most aren’t wearing masks and are very bad at distancing. I was waiting patiently for one person to finish her selection, when she said ‘yes.’ I told her I was just giving her space and will go there when finished. She started signing and huffing saying to just come and get my stuff. I said I would wait, and she got all upset. People just aren’t getting it. I have no problems politely telling some one to back away. I will continue to do so, especially if they don’t have masks.

What I have noticed is those that have masks are much more aware of their surroundings. I tend to stay away from those without even more so.
 

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Thanks James. Back on topic. The Canadian government issued a recommendation today that everyone wear facemasks even homemade ones. They have said even though there are no scientific studies that some protection is better than none.
. . .
She started signing and huffing saying to just come and get my stuff. I said I would wait, and she got all upset. People just aren’t getting it. I have no problems politely telling some one to back away. I will continue to do so, especially if they don’t have masks.
Agreed, people just don't get it.
 

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Possible civil unrest is Not far away. Who would have predicted much of what is going on? Other than to say a pandemic is inevitable. To tp shortages, crowded grocery stores, lack of masks, lack of hand sanitizer, lack of disinfectant, close walkers.....the list goes on and on. Just spent a few minutes browsing tomorrows new grocery flyers. Pork specials abound.....but not any other meat.....could be Another small lack of supply. My mom said she couldn’t find coffee on her last trip.

as every day passes where one does not get sick, one will inevitably feel safer. We have a lake front home and the pressure from family to come for a visit is Building a lot.

Masks will be the next shortage with today’s announcement, I’m hoping my order from old navy a few days ago get filled....they are are sold out now,

you‘re right...people are not getting it. I find it especially hard in a small town. The city we live close to (pop. 30,000) has had 15 cases. Nobody there wheres a mask and the grocery stores are full with no security at entrance.
 

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Discussion Starter #193
you‘re right...people are not getting it. I find it especially hard in a small town. The city we live close to (pop. 30,000) has had 15 cases. Nobody there wheres a mask and the grocery stores are full with no security at entrance.
I have seen the same thing. The weather is good, people are out and about. What could go wrong.

At a local golf course, the pro-shop had just one entrance and it was off a narrow path used by players moving from one hole to the next. . Sign on door said just two could enter at a time. Players were supposed to arrive 15 min ahead of time to play. Instead, there were at least a dozen golfers gathered outside the pro-shop door no more than 1-2ft apart (presumably so they wouldn't lose there place in line-up). Suggesting they move didn't get a good response! ISTM that some of the players didn't get it, and the course's management needed a better plan.
 

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Thanks James. Back on topic. The Canadian government issued a recommendation today that everyone wear facemasks even homemade ones. They have said even though there are no scientific studies that some protection is better than none.
"Dr. Tam says not only that but in terms of public use, current evidence suggests that if you do not have symptoms a mask causes more contact between your face and the outside of the mask which could be contaminated. She says if the public wants to use this measure they have to be very careful when taking it off."


Actually they literally stated the opposite, but hey, that's their "science based" recommendations.
This is just when they said quarantines and travel restrictions don't work, until 2 months too late they decided they'd work so well they're sending people out to ensure compliance with the mandatory quarantine.

I just think the flip flopping is destroying their credibility. People aren't going to listen to the government if they keep changing their minds.

To be fair I actually agree, a masks and gloves can work, but since most people use them wrong, they are likely to actually offer no net benefit, and possibly increase the risk of disease spread. That's a nuanced view, that I believe is likely correct, but it really isn't a good message for a public health advisory.


To me it seems that they're trying, I DO believe that. But I think that they're showing poor judgement flipping messages, it just gives the doubters more reason to doubt them.
 

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I noticed Global tv tries really hard to show all their videos that contain people wearing masks...in the back ground no one is. I think I'll just stay my distance & avoid stores that require masks... I'm sure the propaganda will continue regardess...my guess is 5% of people in the Superstore here wear dust masks etc.
 

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"Dr. Tam says not only that but in terms of public use, current evidence suggests that if you do not have symptoms a mask causes more contact between your face and the outside of the mask which could be contaminated. She says if the public wants to use this measure they have to be very careful when taking it off."


Actually they literally stated the opposite, but hey, that's their "science based" recommendations.
This is just when they said quarantines and travel restrictions don't work, until 2 months too late they decided they'd work so well they're sending people out to ensure compliance with the mandatory quarantine.

I just think the flip flopping is destroying their credibility. People aren't going to listen to the government if they keep changing their minds.

To be fair I actually agree, a masks and gloves can work, but since most people use them wrong, they are likely to actually offer no net benefit, and possibly increase the risk of disease spread. That's a nuanced view, that I believe is likely correct, but it really isn't a good message for a public health advisory.


To me it seems that they're trying, I DO believe that. But I think that they're showing poor judgement flipping messages, it just gives the doubters more reason to doubt them.
Definitely agree that the flip flopping isn’t helping. It’s been said earlier that a mask will protect those around them more. The challenge is that people also able to spread while being asymptomatic, so unless you have no contact for 14 days, you could still be a carrier.

I trust my emergency response recommendations which is a mask will help. Our chief even said even without double blind studies it is logical to think that covering your face will reduce spread for both you. and those around you. I don’t need the govenerment to tell me what makes logical sense.

It’s been said that masks are only forth in terms of protection in preventing spread. The first is physical distancing, second engineering controls (plexiglass ect)), third good hygiene, then PPE/ masks. I figure I can control only part of number one, none of number two, and fully control myself for three and four.
 

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I can't find a damn mask for sale anywhere. I'd wear one if I could find one. I ordered some on amazon a month ago but they shipped from china and still haven't arrived.
 

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Discussion Starter #198
I started this thread a month ago with advice from someone who knows a bit about the effectiveness of masks.
People in many countries wear masks in public, even without a pandemic. Especially in Asia. Those people are not stupid. It us in the West that are.
I have no trouble with our experts being slow to accept that masks help. Now that things are opening up, this is the time for us to wear masks when in enclosed spaces like stores our outside in busy areas where it is hard to maintain distance.
Where to gets masks? A lot of people are making their own. Others have small cottage businesses making them - Search kijiji in your are, and you should find them.
Keep Safe!
 

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Masks, used properly likely help.
However, masks are not likely to be used properly by most people.
Used improperly they may cause more spread. That's specifically why there is even more question about masks for young children.

You can't "double blind" this study, anyone who would suggest it clearly hasn't thought it through, or is simply parrotting words they don't understand.
Double blind testing is only suitable for very specific types of investigation.
 

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Masks, used properly likely help.
However, masks are not likely to be used properly by most people.
Used improperly they may cause more spread. That's specifically why there is even more question about masks for young children.

You can't "double blind" this study, anyone who would suggest it clearly hasn't thought it through, or is simply parrotting words they don't understand.
Double blind testing is only suitable for very specific types of investigation.
I have been reading through many studies and protocols since January. From what I can infer, wearing masks properly will slow down the rate of infection. The studies I read about where it may increase spread, when reading into the details, it sounds like there is a good chance the people will get sick anyways. Here's some random facts I have read (I won't take the time to find all the articles as I have already done my research)
  • Masks will reduce the amount particles going out in an infected person (protects others)
  • Virus particles have been found on outside of masks but not the inside (will protect the user).
  • If masks are moist (over 2 or 3 hours), the virus particles can be breathed in (will increase chances of infection. However, without a mask, they would have breathed these particles in earlier). Even when I am doing a marathon of running around, I have never had to wear a mask for 3 hours straight. I bring extra ones with me, and change at appropriate time. Lesson - change mask.
  • Viruses can be transferred from mask to person when touching face or taking off mask. Lessons - don't touch face, but this could happen anyway without a mask. I touch my face less with a mask, but that's me. Second lesson - wash hands before taking off mask and after
- Countries that have a wide culture of wearing masks seem to have this under better control. I still had a family and people we knew flying into Asian countries in the beginning of March. Their protocols were to wear masks in the office.

Flip flopping definitely doesn't help, but right now, there are a few studies that say it MAY increase infection, but if you read in detail why, it still makes sense to wear masks. I wouldn't be surprised in a few months that there will be research that shows that wearing masks outweighs the risks of not wearing mask.
 
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