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I do not have much a a problem if any government uses troops to maintain order.
But, if some trooper beat me senseless just for protesting ..... I would be steaming with the need for revenge.
Well now you know what's going on in Portland. The "troops" aren't obeying the laws of the United States. From day one, both local police and other levels of police have been suppressing peaceful protesters. I saw it with my own eyes when I lived there.

Just wait until this generation grows up and takes power. Do you think they are going to forget these massive civil liberties violations by authoritarian-style police?

The heavy handed, right-wing leaning police are creating... before our eyes... a generation of people who will become left leaning and anti authoritarian. Trump is accelerating the process. He is basically "sealing the deal", that once this current wave of right wing insanity [concentrated among old boomers by the way] passes, the US will be taking a strong shift left.

If Trump pushes all this too far, the backlash may be more extreme than you think. He's treading on dangerous ground and helping destroy the United States of America.
 

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I think that the federal troops should remain on federal property and not wander off site and tackle protesters. I got no problem with troops being on federal property.
 

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Well now you know what's going on in Portland. The "troops" aren't obeying the laws of the United States. From day one, both local police and other levels of police have been suppressing peaceful protesters. I saw it with my own eyes when I lived there.

Just wait until this generation grows up and takes power. Do you think they are going to forget these massive civil liberties violations by authoritarian-style police?

The heavy handed, right-wing leaning police are creating... before our eyes... a generation of people who will become left leaning and anti authoritarian. Trump is accelerating the process. He is basically "sealing the deal", that once this current wave of right wing insanity [concentrated among old boomers by the way] passes, the US will be taking a strong shift left.

If Trump pushes all this too far, the backlash may be more extreme than you think. He's treading on dangerous ground and helping destroy the United States of America.
I think its fair to say that both the left and right are currently experiencing waves of insanity. People are being pushed to either the far left or the far right, any middle ground seems to have disappeared. I don't see it ending well for either side.
 

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"Get off this estate."
"What for?"
"Because it's mine."
"Where did you get it?"
"From my father."
"Where did he get it?"
"From his father."
"And where did he get it?"
"He fought for it."
"Well, I'll fight you for it."
--Carl Sandburg--
 

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Well now you know what's going on in Portland. The "troops" aren't obeying the laws of the United States. From day one, both local police and other levels of police have been suppressing peaceful protesters. I saw it with my own eyes when I lived there.
I don't believe you.
 

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Discussion Starter #347
Good cartoon..........reminds me of my union days printing the news letter for the local.

Personally I think Canada has found a nice niche between capitalism and socialism. We love our social programs but recognize that capitalism pays the bills.

It is a fine balance, but we seem to have done pretty darn good over the past 100 plus years in finding that balance.
 

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Discussion Starter #348 (Edited)
The concept that unions and socialism hate business doesn't mesh with the reality at all.

As a union leader at times, we were in constant talks with the company to figure out how we can raise the level of benefit for our members, while at the same time ensuring the company would remain profitable and in business. We viewed it as a partnership that should benefit all parties. During good economic times the company agreed to raise benefits and during economic downturns the union agreed to lower benefits to the levels necessary to support the company.

During economic downturns when the company is struggling, it is the union leadership that stands in front of the workers and tells them they will have to give up some benefits to keep the company in business. The workers trust the union and it is a much less contentious issue than if the company simply put out a letter reducing the benefits. I remember when GM was struggling and the union gave up many concessions. Many days vacation and pay were given up. Lower wages and freezing pension cost of living raises were affected. Some of the changes have been permanent since then. The health care benefits was spun off into the ASR Trust which relived the auto makers of that financial responsibility.

People never been involved with union leadership aren't aware of the constant interaction between the union and company to solve joint problems.

As unions disappeared workers lost their voice at the table. We would do well to encourage more unionism to restore the balance.
 

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As unions disappeared workers lost their voice at the table. We would do well to encourage more unionism to restore the balance.
Get unions to work with the employers to ensure the mutual success.
As it is North American unions seem intent on sucking the blood out of the employers until they go bankrupt.

In Germany, unions actually understand the health the the employer is important.


Here Unions killed their employers.
 

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The concept that unions and socialism hate business doesn't mesh with the reality at all.
I too was elected local union president twice.
The very first line in any union contract ..... "The Employer Retains The Right To Manage".

Are police unions destroying communities in the same way that unions destroy private companies?
 

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Unions only worked with GM when the company was bankrupt and it was a condition of getting their pensions bailed out by the taxpayer.
 

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I too was elected local union president twice.
The very first line in any union contract ..... "The Employer Retains The Right To Manage".
Follow-up to that is all residual rights go to management. In other words, management can do what it wants as long as it doesn't conflict with employee rights. The problem occurs when you get union "lawyers" who try to argue certain interpretations which quickly fall apart. That tends to lead to conflict.
 

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Discussion Starter #353 (Edited)
Unions only worked with GM when the company was bankrupt and it was a condition of getting their pensions bailed out by the taxpayer.

Not true........the Union and GM worked together for decades when GM was the biggest company in the world.

The success of GM was a testament to the strength of that relationship. It was because of their good relationship, that the Union negotiated for substantial wage and benefit cuts, some of which remain permanent more than a decade later.

The taxpayer "bailouts" were loans given to GM, which were repaid in stock. It was the Harper government who decided to sell the stock try to balance their budget.

The government should have retained the stock. GM today is prosperous and employs tens of thousands of Canadians.

The "pensions" provide retirement benefits and mean GM retirees and their spouses never have to make use of government social programs such as GIS.

The auto industry and their employees and retirees provides the largest % of economic GDP in Canada today.
 

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The auto industry provides the largest % of economic GDP in Canada today.
Please source that claim.
I know, you won't, because you made it up, and you likely know it isn't true.

Oil and Gas is larger than the auto industry
 

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Discussion Starter #355
Follow-up to that is all residual rights go to management. In other words, management can do what it wants as long as it doesn't conflict with employee rights. The problem occurs when you get union "lawyers" who try to argue certain interpretations which quickly fall apart. That tends to lead to conflict.
That is true. Many hours are spent at contract negotiations arguing over the terminology and words such as "management may" or "management will".
 

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Discussion Starter #356 (Edited)
Please source that claim.
I know, you won't, because you made it up, and you likely know it isn't true.

Oil and Gas is larger than the auto industry
It looks like the energy sector is way down the list.


The contribution of the auto industry to Canada.

 

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It looks like the energy sector is way down the list.


The contribution of the auto industry to Canada.

yes, and the Auto Industry is even lower, which was my point.
 

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When I was union president at Elliot Lake Ontario and found that the company was fraudulently calculating radiation exposure records, I chose not to go to the Ministry Of Labour because I knew that it would bankrupt the company and we would all be unemployed.
I quietly settled the issue or negotiated the issue away and with membership approval.

When I was union president at a pest control company, I noticed that very few technicians had gray hair.
And found technicians were being poisoned by pesticides and were falling asleep while driving around doing service calls, I asked to form a safety and health committee.
When it was refused, I went to the company and told them that either they co-operated or I would destroy them.
I got a hearing in front of the ministry board and detailed all the incidents and which buildings that were having pesticides improperly applied.
All the while, there was a stenographer doing the transcript.
I knew that my week long testimony was going to destroy the company and I set out intentionally to do so.
I knew that the transcript was going to serve as the noose around the company in future years because of the record. It was as though I gave the company a criminal record or a Star of David to wear. (De-Branded.)
The company was owned by a huge conglomerate and I was debating with their top scientist out of Japan.
Needless to say ...... the company is no longer in existence.
And I felt better for it.

It cost the Teamsters union more than a quarter million to back my play.
All the while I was sitting in the hearing room, me and the teamster representative played the word game "Hangman" to idle away the time.
 

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As unions disappeared workers lost their voice at the table. We would do well to encourage more unionism to restore the balance.
Capitalism has innovated and found ways to avoid unions and regulation. They created a whole new industry which they branded with the cutesy, loving term "sharing economy" 💕 ... in fact, it's just old fashioned capitalism. But this time, the workers have NO protections, no job security, no pensions, no safety oversight, and they are subjected to cold hearted robotic dismissal (rankings & ratings).

In fact the companies barely acknowledge that the workers are employees. They're rebooted capitalism and left labour rights in the dust.

Young people today, the ones doing all these deliveries, driving unregulated taxis, etc, desperately need a union. Amazon warehouse employees desperately need a union.
 

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Capitalism has innovated and found ways to avoid unions and regulation. They created a whole new industry which they branded with the cutesy, loving term "sharing economy" 💕 ... in fact, it's just old fashioned capitalism. But this time, the workers have NO protections, no job security, no pensions, no safety oversight, and they are subjected to cold hearted robotic dismissal (rankings & ratings).

In fact the companies barely acknowledge that the workers are employees. They're rebooted capitalism and left labour rights in the dust.

Young people today, the ones doing all these deliveries, driving unregulated taxis, etc, desperately need a union. Amazon warehouse employees desperately need a union.
The thing is they're doing commodity work.
The problem with commodities is there is no way to differentiate, and it ends up being "lowest price"

The only thing they care about is the service being offered.
You seem to think performance (rankings and ratings) is a bad way to decide.
I can't think of a more fair way.

When I buy a GIC, I look for the term creditworthiness and rate.

The thing is unions are just another bit of wasteful overhead and inefficiency. I've worked at union shops, I don't want to work at one again. It was horrible.
The reason unions are dying is they killed their employers. Pretty much the only union workplaces left are government workers, you just have to look at the ballooning deficits to see how that's working out.
 
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