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Discussion Starter #1,281 (Edited)
Where did I say anyone left the labour market? Again you seem to be putting your own arguments and fears as statements I’ve made. You can’t seem to grasp that money doesnt solve poverty it’s a lifestyle. Get off your high horse for a few hours and go down to the poor section of town, talk to caseworkers, Research the resources these people have access to, you’ll be amazed if not discusted. find out how much money these people get now and how they don’t change. Watch how they’d decide to have kids in order to get more money every month, not for the kids either.

these people think eating at McDonald’s is cheap, they don’t understand how that same money could feed their family a Nutritious meal for several days if they shopped and cooked at home. They’d never sacrifice cigarettes or alcohol for their kids. They don’t budget, they can’t handle money.

i think we both agree that there is a welfare trap, we just disagree on how to fix it. I think it requires education to change their thinking, you seem to think throwing more money will solve it. As I’ve said before money is a tool, used correctly you can build wonderful things, used incorrectly you’ll get hurt. Throwing money at the poor is like giving a baby a chainsaw and hoping things will work out fine. I get this opinion from actually working with the poor, not some ideals based in fantasy.

im at least willing to walk the walk as well. I’m on a daily prescription that I pay for out of pocket, no subsidy. About $3.50/day. There is an alternative drug I could be on, fully Covered by the government at $1500/month. I could pay nothing except my taxes and cost the taxpayer $18000/year more, but I choose to be an adult an pay for my own needs Saving everyone. strange that the government doesn’t cover the cheaper drug, others must be costing the system a fortune because of that decision.

im stunned your not worried about where all this Covid handout money is going to come from...we’ll be paying for it for generation, if we dont bankrupt the world first.
 

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If you'd been following the discussion elsewhere, you would see that I did indeed say that I thought CERB should be a loan with no payments for 12 months. Just to bail out those who did not keep appropriate cash emergency funds to be able to keep paying their bills (and prevent the financial system from grinding to a halt). We can do cash grants later if appropriate, but I think it is early to be making those decisions. I'm actually not persuaded that the private sector should not take a lot of the hit for this on the chin. We shouldn't make Air Canada shareholders whole, for instance. If AC goes bust, I'm okay with recapitalizing the firm because it is important infrastructure. A lot of small businesses will fail. I don't see how the government can bail them all out.
 

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Oh, and I think there is more than one kind of poor out there. I never argued for withholding education. There are the intergenerational poor who seem intent on wallowing in poverty. Not sure how UBI would make it worse. But a lot of people just came from unfortunate situations or had misfortune visited upon them and could use a bit of support to get back on their feet. Ideally that support is not of the kind that prevents them from earning an income as well.

My brother in law suffered a severe leg fracture which did not heal well and required multiple surgeries. He could not work in his previous line of work--his skills are mostly mechanical. My sister has never held very good jobs. So they were on the disability treadmill for almost 3 years. My sister worked under the table. He did some wheeling and dealing on kijiji (buying quads, etc. and flipping for profit). All not reported because my sister was terrified of losing benefits (including the medical that they got that helped cover cost of dental, medications, etc.). It was awful to see them in that situation. My BIL's leg finally healed and he gradually regained most of the function of his leg. They finally got out of that trap, but I could see how people can get trapped by the incentives at play. The only real option for fixing those incentives is to do away with disability altogether, or to make it less punitive (confiscatory) to earn an income.

I know that there are skid row types out there that subsist on welfare. How do you think it is better that they get welfare than UBI? With UBI, they might be tempted to work... and not just in the informal economy like my sister and her husband.
 

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Discussion Starter #1,284
I have a couple of small businesses that could be forced to go under because of government regulations. I’m not asking for a bailout. I don’t think the private sector, who actually creates the money to pay the bills should be left holding the bag while the public sector gets a free ride. Government layoffs would go a long way to freeing up money needed elsewhere. And our public education is a good place to start. Kids can read, write or do math without a calculator, dont know anything if not given a job, except to go back to school, what are we paying for? Not a good roi by any measure except all the jobs for teachers and staff. I don’t believe in work for welfare either.

as I said in an earlier post, maybe a different thread, I taught a buddy of mine how to invest in stocks using my strateg. He is very risk adverse, paranoid and frightened of losing money. I spent a long time holding his hand, reassuring him, and he actually tried it. Been making double digit returns since he started. He understands this isn’t normal, but still Wishes he'd listened to me much earlier in life now. in this market it’s almost impossible to lose money today, yet people still won’t try it. I’ve changed the path of several people over the years and am quite proud of that. Unlike my buddy and all the social workers who are dealing with the homeless...very few have changed despite a ton of money and resources.
 

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Discussion Starter #1,285
You realize that all these social programs just promote crime and drug dealing because they can make money without the government claw backs. My buddy who rents to the homeless often has to evict them because of illegal activities.
 

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My buddy who rents to the homeless often has to evict them because of illegal activities.

Sir, it seems that you are no better a judge of human beings than you are a specimen of one. Just on a brief inventory, I'd say that you could use yourself a shave and a brighter disposition. And lastly, if you don't mind me aspersing your friends, a better class of drinking buddy........Buster Scruggs.
 

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Discussion Starter #1,288
Just out of curiosity, what regulations are at issue? Is this something peculiar to the COVID19 shutdown, or something else?
Covid shutdown orders, no clients, no income. It’s nice that the government is helping with payroll, but a business has a lot of overhead aside from employees.
 

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In my very early years of retail banking, I was surprised that most small Businesses were operating with large utilized lines of credit. Whether it was out of necessity or creative accounting, it was surprising to see successful, long-term businesses operate that way. I don’t think the average (uninterested) Canadian appreciates that the world revolves around credit....they just think it’s for people who overspend or who are bad with money/budgeting.
 

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Discussion Starter #1,291
Wait until we have to pay for all this money being handed out. It’s easy to hand out money, it’s hard to actually pay for it.
 

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Wait until we have to pay for all this money being handed out. It’s easy to hand out money, it’s hard to actually pay for it.
What are the Feds at? 20% of GDP so far, just for COVID19 so far?
That's just one level of government, and that's in the first 2 months of them taking it seriously.

Also due to the economic shutdown, revenues are going to be way down. I would not be surprised if the Federal government alone adds 40% of GDP to the debt by the end of this crisis.
Add in the Provincial debts and our total Government debt is likely to exceed 100% of GDP.
Some provinces are unable to sell debt on the open market.

This is a huge problem.


All that being said, I think UBI is the only fair way to have large amounts of the population stay home. That's exactly what we need now, but we need people to get to work ASAP. Which is why I think the CERB 75% "keep on payroll" plan, is at least conceptually a good idea.
 

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Discussion Starter #1,296
We are in a deficit now, we just spend another 85M we don't have and you think it’s fine to spend even more...Give yourself a slap and wake up to reality.are you the type of person who thinks you still have money because you still have cheque’s left in your check book and credit cards in your wallet
 

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COVID = certificate of vaccine identification, micro chip the sheep, the sheep hail to the Anti Christ & get paid in crypto for being good little sheep.
 
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