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We can adopt the changes necessary or they will be forced upon us.

One way or the other, the status quo is unsustainable.
Every liberal solution, whether there is a problem or not, requires the government power to exercise more power over the people. They manage to convince easily led people that there is a problem and only they can solve if you just give them more power. But in every single case, it collapses into a socialist nightmare.

You should take a vacation to Venezuela to see what happens when the ideology you hold dear is implemented.
 

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We can adopt the changes necessary or they will be forced upon us.

One way or the other, the status quo is unsustainable.
Nobody is arguing that the current situation is perfect.

However the problem is that some people are proposing changes that will make things much worse.

The thing is many of these bad ideas have been tried, and it is very clear they don't work. But people say "we have to do something", it's like they lack the understanding that we live in the best society at the best point in history.
Basically everywhere else in the world, and every other time in history was worse than what we currently have, right here, right now.
I'm all for change, but it has to be a good change that is going to make things better, or at least not worst.
 

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Some students managed the changes, but many didn't and the drop out rate increased.

When the Liberals were elected they changed the curriculum so fewer students failed. Unfortunately that meant they were less prepared for university.

Remedial classes at university is one consequence. Another is that universities rank the high schools their applicants attended.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4405495/waterloo-engineering-grade-inflation-list/

Personally I think the rigorous Grade 13 washed out some university "hopefuls" who didn't make the grades necessary for entrance.

Now they are washing out after they are in university and end up with student debt and no degree.

Or, they transfer from demanding programs into other programs that are less in demand and easier to accomplish.........but has no jobs.

The university will happily accept their money.
I went to university in 1976. Remedial classes were a thing then too. Long before grade 13 was eliminated.
I went to a school in Ontario. One that introduced semester systems and other ideas before they were introduced accross the province.
I recall first year chemistry, physics and calculus classes at UWO where the profs were upset students were not at the level required. I essentially sat through remedial classes for the first six months so other students could catch up on material I had covered in the first half of grade 13. They were still not up to the level, at that point when I left for other ventures.
FYI, when my Alberta educated son went to university a few years ago, it was common for Alberta students to get up to a 10% point bonus on their marks when appliying to universities outside Alberta. If you got an 80% grade in Alberta, it was treated as 88-90 when applying to US or UWO for example.
Alberta kids are not brighter, but they did have a tougher curriculum. Kids moving from other provinces often struggle for a while to catch up.
Much of this is about expectations. Kids can learn much faster than we give them credit for.
I do agree there was a lost year for some students when grade 13 was eliminated and there was a higher dropout rate for about two years. But that was years ago.
Perhaps it is time for a university entrance exam.
 

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They also forget that there really is no poverty in Canada. There is mental illness, substance abuse and a few exceptions. The real problem people see, that they actually call poverty, is really just the fact that some people are a lot less well off then others. That will never change, nor would you want it to. The elimination of that would just mean that you and I are now also poor. I hope that is not what you want, but reading these posts, I sometimes cannot tell.

I have always said, that if you have a tap that gives you clean fresh water, your situation is probably ahead of 500 million people in this world. If you really want to see what poverty looks like, just google "poor people of Ethiopia". When you are done, ask yourself if you have ever seen the like of that, here in Canada. I know I haven't.
 

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A thought to remember, Marx said, "Remove one freedom per generation and soon you will have no freedom and no one would have noticed."

There was a chemistry professor in a large college that had some exchange students in the class.
One day while the class was in the lab, the professor noticed one young man, an exchange student, who kept rubbing his back and stretching as if his back hurt.

The professor asked the young man what was the matter. The student told him he had a bullet lodged in his back. He had been shot while fighting Communists in his native country who were trying to overthrow his country's government and install a new communist regime.

In the midst of his story, he looked at the professor and asked a strange question. He asked: "Do you know how to catch wild pigs?"
The professor thought it was a joke and asked for the punch line.
The young man said that it was no joke. "You catch wild pigs by finding a suitable place and putting corn on the ground. The pigs find it and begin to come every day to eat the free food.
When they are used to coming every day, you put a fence down one side of. the place where they are used to coming. When they get used to the fence, they begin to eat the corn again and you put up another side of the fence.
They get used to that and start to eat again. You continue until you have all four sides of the fence up with a gate in the last side.
The pigs, which are used to the free corn, start to come through the gate to eat that free corn again. You then slam the gate on them and catch the whole herd.
Suddenly the wild pigs have lost their freedom. They run around and around. inside the fence, but they are caught. Soon they go back to eating the free corn. They are so used to it that they have forgotten how to forage in the woods for themselves, so they accept their captivity."

The young man then told the professor that is exactly what he sees happening in Canada. The government keeps pushing us toward Communism/Socialism and keeps spreading the free corn out in the form of programs such as supplemental income, tax credit for unearned income, tax exemptions, tobacco subsidies, dairy subsidies, payments not to plant crops, welfare entitlements, medicine, drugs, etc., while we continually lose our freedoms, just a little at a time.

One should always remember two truths:
1. There is no such thing as a free lunch, and
2. You can never hire someone to provide a service for you cheaper than you can do it yourself.

If you see that all of this wonderful government "help" is a problem confronting the future of democracy in Canada, you might want to share this with your friends.

If you think the free ride is essential to your way of life, then you will probably not share this.
BUT, God help us all when the gate slams shut.
Think about this
Quote for today: "The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are now outnumbered by those who vote for their subsidized living."
 

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They also forget that there really is no poverty in Canada. There is mental illness, substance abuse and a few exceptions. The real problem people see, that they actually call poverty, is really just the fact that some people are a lot less well off then others. That will never change, nor would you want it to. The elimination of that would just mean that you and I are now also poor. I hope that is not what you want, but reading these posts, I sometimes cannot tell.

I have always said, that if you have a tap that gives you clean fresh water, your situation is probably ahead of 500 million people in this world. If you really want to see what poverty looks like, just google "poor people of Ethiopia". When you are done, ask yourself if you have ever seen the like of that, here in Canada. I know I haven't.
Sounds like someone who hasn't been to many poor places in Canada.

There are plenty of people in Canada that don't have access to clean drinking water.
 

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Discussion Starter #1,247
Yeah, I read about a native community outside a major city, can’t remember which one exactly but I could look it up. Apparently the city ran lines right to the edge of the reserve, but weren’t allowed to supply the water because the natives had some sort of clause that a majority of the workers for the water supply had to be native and it would have been just a feed off of the city’s lines.

The federal government was supposed to build an entire water treatment plant that the natives could run themselves, but the natives who were trained to work in the water treatment plant found they could get paid more working for the city, so they’d leave after being trained and they found they couldn’t hire enough people to keep the plant running, so it’s not currently in operation.

Funny thing is, the casino they built has a direct water feed from the city and has no water issues despite being on the same reserve.
 

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Sounds like someone who hasn't been to many poor places in Canada.

There are plenty of people in Canada that don't have access to clean drinking water.
They have decided to be exceptions, or they are the mental ill or substance abused. It is not like they could not find a developed city, if they wanted to.
 

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You are not in a poor country when more people die of obesity than starvation.
That is better then my running water analogy. You do have a good point though. The problem many have are the exceptions. Plus, if that person who is "less well off" is someone you care about, it does make it heart wrenching, all the same. I do understand that well. All I can say, in those cases, is at least they live in Canada and not Ethiopia. I doubt many would argue with me about that.
 

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UBI is Netflix and Chill money.
The reason it's a good idea now, is exactly the reason it's a bad idea long term.
If its too comfortable, people will opt out of working.

Right now we want to make opting out survivable, I don't want that to continue long term.
It's bad for the country, it's bad for the individual who has no purpose, it's bad for those who don't get to enjoy the fruits of their labours.

I understand supporting those who are unable to work, and that's fine.

Also UBI is basically unaffordable, I haven't seen a single "living wage" calculation that ended up below the basic personal deduction for income tax. Don't forget, the Federal government has spent another years budget on COVID 19.

If they couldn't function without taxing someone making minimum wage before, there is no way they can handle it now.
 

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^I dunno. If that were true, wouldn't people work just enough to get the equivalent of UBI, then netflix and chill? Think about it honestly. People work full time jobs to get more than that amount, kinda putting the lie to the assertion that people stop working once they have that amount of money.

Welfare, on the other hand, makes it mandatory that you not work or you lose 100% (or more) of what you get on welfare.
 

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Discussion Starter #1,254
If you really want ubi so much, and want corporations to pay for it, why not step up at a time like this and invest in those companies and create your own ubi stream of income. It’s not hard to do, corporations would actually pay you and you wouldn’t be taking from others for nothing.
hate to say it, but you don’t deserve any free money just because you were born incompetent.
 

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A forced inability to save causes a lack of savings, high levels of debt, and a dependency on government programs.
 

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If you really want ubi so much, and want corporations to pay for it, why not step up at a time like this and invest in those companies and create your own ubi stream of income. It’s not hard to do, corporations would actually pay you and you wouldn’t be taking from others for nothing.
hate to say it, but you don’t deserve any free money just because you were born incompetent.
I think you're getting confused with the child benefit. You do get money for being born (incompetent or otherwise).
 

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There is no 'supposed' to. We have welfare disability. Whether they are enough to live on is another question. UBI is generally a poverty reduction measure, not necessarily a poverty elimination measure.
 

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Discussion Starter #1,259
Ubi, is not welfare disability, it’s given to everyone, able bodied, rich or not, hence the word “universal“.

as I said before, if you want ubi, set up o own personal ubi. For example, my son wants to attend school in a different city and Was wondering how to pay for rent there. He bought a local 3 bedroom place last year which he rents to 3 students for $1500/month. The profits from that will more than pay his rent while he’s gone. He’s set up a brokerage account and invested his extra income, each month he collects income from dividends. He chooses not to blow his money like most people and doesn’t have to worry about money while he goes to school. it just takes a little restraint and discipline to achieve, maybe some sacrifices as well.

if an underemployed 19 year old can do this, I think most people don’t have the excuse not to be able to.
 

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The point is that welfare and disability are not enough to live on, really. So nothing says that a UBI would have to be enough to live on. We already have a janky UBI in place between GIS, HST rebate, child benefits, earned income tax credit.
 
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