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Discussion Starter #1
Hello All :

It's been advised that I simply go see a Pro about this , but before I do see an FA of some kind I would like to do a rough estimate of my DB's CV .(commuted value of my defined benefit pension) using the elaborate information provided in my annual pension info booklet . I'm scouring this forum and the net via google and I'm really learning a hell of a lot about this rather deep and elusive subject .

Anyway , I've found this very interesting .PDF (from 2006) http://www.advisor.ca/images/other/ae/ae_0706_pensionpaths.pdf

Lot's of interesting info here , pro's and cons , In's and out's , it doesn't cover all the bases but it is a very good start , I think , for those that are curious .

However , the final page of this .PDF actually reveals the author's formula and an actual example being run through the formula but she totally lost me on some of the input values .

For instance , why is the 'C' factor (Discount for 15 years) displayed as '2.10' ? Is there another chart she is not showing us ?

Same with the 'B' value (present value at 5.25 percent of 1 for a term of 19 years) being displayed as '12.17' ? No idea why .

This looks like a usable formula for my needs but it is unusable to me without an explanation of how these plugged in values are arrived at . The math is a snap , of course , but it appears one can't get there from here without further clarification of the factors used .

Now , I know this is less than an ideal solution to estimating a CV . I have a reduced early retirement benefit at 55 (I'm 54 now) and an unreduced benefit at 58 , plus a CPP bridge between 55 & 60 . No inflation protection (ad hoc only) or health benefits . Not sure about the pension's funding circa nov/2009 .

In the meantime I'm still looking for a slightly more elaborate formula that a person can use to roughly estimate their CV using the information from their DB's annual personal benefit information booklet .

Does anyone else have a similar formula or link that they are willing to share ?

Thanks for your time and any specific help you can provide .

G J D Swain
 

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Discussion Starter #3
If you scan that booklet or the annual (you can hide all the personal info, employer's name etc) and send it to me I might be able to help. I work in pensions...
Hi :

Well , thank you for the offer , but I was kind of hoping to do everything here in this forum so that others can also follow along and make comments and suggestions and corrections , and so that even more can , perhaps , learn something too .

I am more than willing to post all & any of the pertinent info from my booklet if someone could post a link to a viable formula , or maybe pull the formula from their Excel spreadsheet , or just ask for my numbers and do the formula right here in this thread .

Thanks very much for the kind offer however .

Sincerely
G J D Swain
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Found this on another financial forum where some poor guy was also attempting to roughly estimate his CV . Funny .

As an actuary, I think it's probably inappropriate for a non-actuary to be dabbling in my area of professional expertise.

Had you asked a simple question about rolling over a lump sum payment, or a pension plan, that's one thing. But asking an actuary to teach you how to perform a detailed actuarial calculation is a little like asking a doctor to teach you how to perform surgery.

I'm glad that you used Google and think that you're qualified to perform actuarial calculations. Just don't expect a professional actuary to explain the fine points to you.
At least this guy had the balls to just come out and say it . Very slightly similar to MoneyGal's response
But no one here is going to be able to give you a satisfactory answer. The cash and/or commuted value of a pension taken as a lump sum will be calculated according to the rules of that particular pension, and based on factors specific to you (years of service, age at retirement, number of years to NRA, etc.)
I guess the thing is , when I go to see my doctor I don't go and ask him "what's wrong with me ?" . Instead I go and tell him what's wrong with me and then tell him which Specialist I want him to hook me up with .

I don't go to an auto mechanic and ask him to tell me what's wrong with my car , I just buy the parts and install them myself .

Why , because I've been burned by doctors and by mechanics in the past , and that's why my Doc is my Doc because he is awesome and will work with me . Same with the mechanic who does my safeties (road worthiness) and emission inspections . Great guys I trust 110% .

Now , the FA I saw last year did not impress me at all , quite the opposite actually . I took a chance , let down my guard , and almost got run over by a truck . So now I have no choice but to try and teach myself some of the basics so that I'll have a better idea if my next FP is any good or not , or for that matter if my previous FA was actual as bad as I thought .

If anyone can suggest another money forum where the kind of specific information that I'm looking for exists , I'd be greatly appreciative . It's been like a fight scene from one of the Matrix movies so far . Not fun but very , very enlightening . ;)

Sincerely
G J D Swain
 
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