Canadian Money Forum banner
1 - 20 of 35 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
24,725 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
A pretty amazing story about how Trump attempted to seize power and overthrow the US Government. And Trump came very close. He tried to convince the DOJ to illegally overturn and disregard the election.

This guy is incredibly dangerous. The only thing that prevented Trump from seizing power were a few people in the staff, who refused to go along with the plan. Trump's own White House lawyer called Trump's plan "a murder-suicide pact", and his lawyers threatened to resign in protest.

I think some people don't grasp the danger America is in. Trump has eliminated the objectors from the Republican Party, so the remaining Republicans are loyalists who will cooperate with overturning democracy. This guy can definitely seize power and install himself as dictator of the USA.

Trump will probably run again. A true mad man who wants to be dictator, supported by the Republican Party (who is on board with overthrowing the USA).

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24,725 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
In 2022 they have mid-term elections - whether Trump succeeds in "cleansing" the GOP of his detractors will be the big question that gets answered. If he does eliminate those who oppose him, I agree that he poses a danger in 2024. Time however is not on his side. Could Trump's ego withstand the prospect of losing twice?
Good points, though it seems like they already are cleansing the party of anyone who disagrees with Dear Leader.

But I'm actually more concerned about the bigger picture implications. This whole experience shows that US politics (the Republicans and the voter base) welcomes a non-democratic dictator. The overall American system seems to no longer believe in core American values, doesn't believe in democracy, doesn't believe in a government that has to serve and answer to the people.

Many Americans (especially Republicans) are now turning towards fascism. That's the problem. We're seeing that Republican politicians are unwilling to stand up for core American values due to their personal greed for power and financial payoff.

David Frum, the former speechwriter for George W Bush, points out: MAGA looks like a fascist movement.

Trump could die tomorrow, but even in death, he'll probably end up on some kind of fascist flag (or arm band) as a symbol to inspire others.

Hey Joe........nice guys become floor mats for the not so nice guys.
Yeah, I think the Democrats are failing in their duty to protect America from emerging fascists. The Republicans are on their path to fascism.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24,725 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
It is really interesting phenomena how people don't see how what is happening in US politics is precisely what is happening in Canadians politics. Just replace Trump's name with Trudeau's, change dates, and you have exact same thing.
What nonsense. But I guess this is becoming a far-right talking point, because @MrMatt says this a lot as well.

Among all western countries (US, Canada, Europe), Trump is the only one who tried to use his goons to overturn the democratic process.
Trump is the only one who tried to install himself into power.
Trump is the only one who tried to declare the elections invalid.

No politician in Canada or Europe has ever done this, in recent decades. That's because we take pride in freedom and democracy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24,725 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Trudeau did not overturn any democratic process. In fact, he was handed a minority win, and barely has any power in government unless he cooperates with other parties. Canadian democracy is functioning just fine.

The big problem we have is that the giant country just south of us is flirting with authoritarian rule, and this could become a giant problem (including for Canada).

Let's hope that Americans are able to stick with democracy and respect their own constitution. Trump and his collaborators are very dangerous men, who are a threat to America as we know it.

It's possible that in 5 or 10 years, we might have to deal with a dictatorship down south under fascist rule. They came awfully close in January.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24,725 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Neither did Trump. Both tried though. In March 2020 Trudeau tried. In January 2021 Trump tried.
Both failed. Luckily institutions held both wannabe tyrants back
What a bizarre false equivalency. Not sure why you are going down this line of argument (maybe you read it from one of your far right online sites).

Trump directly tried to seize power. Trudeau never did anything of the sort.

Trump bullied state and DOJ officials and tried to force government into suppressing the election. Trudeau never did anything of the sort.

You must have no understanding whatsoever about the political system or how democracy works. If you really think these are comparable, there's something seriously wrong with you (or maybe you need more education).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24,725 Posts
Discussion Starter · #23 ·
You can't dispute the facts so you resort to name calling. Mature
I think it's fair to call you a far right troll, when you're spinning up lies to disparage Canadian government, while drawing false equivalency to a far right fascist / authoritarian. The things you post are straight out of the right wing propaganda playbook. @MrMatt has, for a long time, been using the same strategy you use. You guys both sound like trained far right propagandists.

In any case, Trump is a fascist monster, who tried to overthrow the United States of America. Quite possibly the worst abuse of power the US has seen in modern times.

Nothing similar happened in Canada, despite the fantasies of far right nuts. We obviously have fair elections, and nobody in Canadian government tried to suppress or overthrow the election process (duh).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24,725 Posts
Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Are you disputing the fact that Trudeau tried to strip parliament of its power and introduce authoritarianism in march of 2020? There was literally legislation he introduced to make himself a tyrant. It was on March 23, 2020.
Well now you're introducing political conspiracy theories. Please explain your allegation in detail, and point to reliable sources (reputable news coverage). How did Trudeau try to "introduce authoritarianism" in March? What legislation did he introduce to make himself a tyrant?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24,725 Posts
Discussion Starter · #56 ·
Introduced legislation that he can unilaterally, without input or vote from parliament, make any decisions that have to do with revenue or spending of the government (so pretty much any decision) until end of 2022.
That is very definition of authoritarianism
This has absolutely nothing to do with seizing power in an illegal or corrupt election process. The legislation of the government was also within the bounds of existing rules; it's allowed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24,725 Posts
Discussion Starter · #57 ·
I think people are failing to appreciate the threat to the US posed by Trump and the Republicans.

There is an ongoing process to install Trump loyalists throughout the government system (in states for now) and the Republicans have also now proven that they are committed to overthrowing a legitimate election.

This isn't going away. In the next US elections, there is a very good chance that the Republicans will try to illegally seize power and take over the USA. The Republicans are becoming an insurgency movement.

There's a good chance Trump will end up as dictator of the USA. Nothing like this has ever been seen in modern times.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24,725 Posts
Discussion Starter · #64 ·
I just don't think the whole MAGA thing should be discounted.

It's a powerful movement of a cult like following, combined with Christian fundamentalism. There is a big religious component to this and it's not going away. Even if Trump croaks, the movement won't be done and those Christian fundamentalists are primed to believe all kinds of wacky stuff. And these fundamentalists can be extremely dangerous.

I don't think Canadians realize this, but many MAGA followers think of Trump as a religious papa figure, almost like a messiah. If you watch the January 6 insurrection footage, you will see the crowd periodically stop and pray.

Smash some furniture ... kick down a door ... stop for a moment and pray ... find a cop and beat him with an American flag and try to kill him ... stop and pray
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24,725 Posts
Discussion Starter · #68 ·
I think you found yourself a boogeyman. Trump can scream and yell all he wants. Unless he becomes democratically elected, he won't be a president.
This is a great illustration of conservative denial. You're coming up with wild fantasies about authoritarian rule in Canada (doesn't exist and not even on the table) while, right in front of your eyes, Trump tried to force himself into power, as a non-elected dictator.

And he's still trying to. Right this very moment, assisted by other Republicans. They are working on it as we speak and continuing to say the last election was invalid.

Why don't you quit with the fantasies, and actually pay attention to something happening in plain view? Trump tried to overthrow the government, and the Republicans are aligning with him, and preparing to attempt to overthrow government again. If the election doesn't give them what they want, they will try to seize power using other means.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24,725 Posts
Discussion Starter · #73 ·
That sentence applies to both parties!
Many examples over recent years.
Not at all. In the US, the Democrats have no history of 'seizing power' when they lose an election.

In fact, Gore won the 2000 election and yet he voluntarily conceded the victory to Bush, who turns out, did not actually win the election.

So no, it's absolutely not the same for "both parties". Not sure where you would get this fiction. The Democrats have given up elections that they legitimately won (Gore) whereas the Republicans consistently try to grab victory illegitimately: both George W Bush, and more recently Trump's attempt.

The Republicans are not participating honestly in US elections. Now a long history of this. And it gives conservatism a bad name.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24,725 Posts
Discussion Starter · #78 ·
Are you going to show ANY evidence that they're actually trying to overturn the election?
You've got to either be trolling or completely disconnected from reality.

Trump intimidated several state officials to try changing the vote result. He directly bullied Georgia to change their results (it's on tape). He also tried to use the DOJ to change the election outcome.

Trump raised the idea of overturning the election result with White House counsel. In the meeting, Trump asked what measures they could use to install him into power. His lawyers told him it was an insanely bad idea. Thankfully the White House counsel did not cooperate with Trump's plans.

Many people in the DOJ quit and many more threatened to quit due to Trump and Republican pressure to weaponize the DOJ to overturn the election.

And still to this day, Trump is saying the election was fraudulent and other Republicans are also calling it a fraud.

So yeah MrMatt, there is tons of evidence that Trump and Republicans were actually trying to overturn the election. And these people are still working towards these efforts, which is why they are so dangerous. If Trump gets back into the White House, it's pretty obvious he will try the same thing, but this time with people who are more cooperative... and if he puts enough of his goons into the DOJ, he might not get the push-back that he did last time.

And then of course, Trump sent the violent MAGA group in a last ditch attempt to stop the election certification, with a physical assault on the Capitol.

Are you really oblivious to all of this?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24,725 Posts
Discussion Starter · #88 ·
Trump or not, the problem is that the Republican Party is trying to set the groundwork for cheating in future elections.

Many Republicans continue to pretend that the last election was unfair. So they are actively encouraging doubt and cynicism among citizens. At the same time, they are revising voting laws in various states to favour themselves.

Trump was the first to attempt to install himself in power illegally, but now that the Republicans have the idea and template, I think they will make a stronger attempt at it. The Republicans don't believe in democracy.

It's possible they will "snap out of it" when Trump is out of the picture, but I'm not sure. At the moment, a huge number of Republicans are committed to the idea of non-democratic authoritarian rule. This is what MAGA believes in: they don't like government, don't like democracy, and don't like the American constitution.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24,725 Posts
Discussion Starter · #90 ·
Here's a 60 Minutes Australia piece on the final days of Trump's presidency, and the right-wing coup.

We almost saw a collapse of the US Government and it seems it was driven by the chaos of Trump throwing a temper tantrum and trying to cling to power as he attempted to overthrow the USA.

China and Russia observed the imminent collapse of the US Government and went on alert. China thought there was the possibility of US launching attacks on them. American Generals had to personally contact Chinese counterparts and reassure them that the US won't attack them.

This is how dangerous this power-hungry lunatic is.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24,725 Posts
Discussion Starter · #96 ·
While Trump and Navarro orchestrated a coup, various far-right goons stormed the Capitol to help overthrow the USA.

The first Jan 6 rioter trial is over. Guy Wesley Reffitt was found guilty on all federal counts (by jury), and faces up to 60 years in prison.

Harmless unarmed rioters? Please. This guy brought an AR-11 rifle, and a pistol, on his trip to DC. He took the pistol on the Capitol grounds and also had
  • zip-tie cuffs (for taking hostages)
  • a helmet
  • body armour
When he returned home from the DC attack, he happily bragged about the mayhem he caused. His son started recording his father on video. Reffitt suspected that his son might turn him in, so he threatened to kill his son and daughter (this was part of the testimony in court).

The son turned over the video evidence to the FBI, and they picked up his dad, with the additional charge of obstruction of justice -- for threatening to kill his children (interference).

There are MANY more defendants who will face charges like these. Many dangerous lunatics who tried to storm the Capitol, carrying weapons, brutally attacking police, and trying to overthrow the government.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24,725 Posts
Discussion Starter · #100 ·
^ Most likely. The trial of the mob "head" (aka very tip of the pyramid) will be of most interest. It's like ripping off that juicy leg of a turkey. Yet to come
I doubt they will go after the master minds (Trump, Bannon, Navarro, Giuliani). Look at how Navarro openly brags about planning the coup. But I could see Giuliani facing criminal charges perhaps. It looks like he was behind the fake elector scheme and they even forged government documents.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24,725 Posts
Discussion Starter · #110 ·
So we should be happy that Trudeau hasn't gone as far as Putin? That's a pretty low standard, but I suppose you have to go that low to defend his recent actions.
You sound awfully grumpy for a "happily" retired guy.

Can't you enjoy living in Canada, one of the nations with the most freedom and liberties on the planet? Life is so good here. It's laughable to suggest we're anything like a dictatorship.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24,725 Posts
Discussion Starter · #130 ·
The first of the Jan 6 terrorists have been tried and found guilty. They are heading for prison. Many more trials to come and likely a lot more guilty plea bargains.
One of the first to be convicted of serious charges was Guy Wesley Reffitt of Texas. He was in one of these anti-government militias.

During the trial, it was revealed that he did have gun(s) in DC and had even brought one to the Capitol. In a militia meeting, he also mentioned that many of the militia members had guns and weren't afraid to use them.

Prosecutors have all kinds of great stuff. They have group texts from Reffitt, and even a Zoom video recording of a militia meeting.

These extremists are very dangerous. They were emboldened during Trump's years, since he spoke their language and encouraged right wing extremism. When these nuts saw that "their man" was running the country, they gained energy and came out in full force. That's why you see them in plain sight. They still largely hide in Canada, except in some occasions such as the attack on Ottawa, when many of them actually did come out and make themselves visible.
 
1 - 20 of 35 Posts
Top