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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
A pretty amazing story about how Trump attempted to seize power and overthrow the US Government. And Trump came very close. He tried to convince the DOJ to illegally overturn and disregard the election.

This guy is incredibly dangerous. The only thing that prevented Trump from seizing power were a few people in the staff, who refused to go along with the plan. Trump's own White House lawyer called Trump's plan "a murder-suicide pact", and his lawyers threatened to resign in protest.

I think some people don't grasp the danger America is in. Trump has eliminated the objectors from the Republican Party, so the remaining Republicans are loyalists who will cooperate with overturning democracy. This guy can definitely seize power and install himself as dictator of the USA.

Trump will probably run again. A true mad man who wants to be dictator, supported by the Republican Party (who is on board with overthrowing the USA).

 

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Yeah, there is something about narcissistic populists who are supported by a cult of personality.
Who feel free to interfere with the justice department, and expunge dissenters from their party.

Trudeau is just the lightweight Trump. At least one of them is out of office.
 

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In 2022 they have mid-term elections - whether Trump succeeds in "cleansing" the GOP of his detractors will be the big question that gets answered. If he does eliminate those who oppose him, I agree that he poses a danger in 2024. Time however is not on his side. Could Trump's ego withstand the prospect of losing twice? Demographics, specifically, are his biggest problem. JMO
 

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The Trump phenomena reveals how far "off the rails" the US government has become.

The GOP may well win the midterm elections, just because of how their system is set up.

I think Biden and the Democrats are making a big mistake by not eliminating the filibuster and not expanding the Supreme Court.

They are too worried about what the "other side" would do if they win, but that misses the whole point of ensuring they don't win.

Unless Biden gets legislation passed and balances the highest court, moderates will give up and stay home during elections.

Hey Joe........nice guys become floor mats for the not so nice guys.
 

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If Trump were to somehow win the GOP nomination, I think there would be a third party set up by moderate conservatives to run in the next election.

They wouldn't win the election, but would draw enough support away from Trump that he couldn't win.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
In 2022 they have mid-term elections - whether Trump succeeds in "cleansing" the GOP of his detractors will be the big question that gets answered. If he does eliminate those who oppose him, I agree that he poses a danger in 2024. Time however is not on his side. Could Trump's ego withstand the prospect of losing twice?
Good points, though it seems like they already are cleansing the party of anyone who disagrees with Dear Leader.

But I'm actually more concerned about the bigger picture implications. This whole experience shows that US politics (the Republicans and the voter base) welcomes a non-democratic dictator. The overall American system seems to no longer believe in core American values, doesn't believe in democracy, doesn't believe in a government that has to serve and answer to the people.

Many Americans (especially Republicans) are now turning towards fascism. That's the problem. We're seeing that Republican politicians are unwilling to stand up for core American values due to their personal greed for power and financial payoff.

David Frum, the former speechwriter for George W Bush, points out: MAGA looks like a fascist movement.

Trump could die tomorrow, but even in death, he'll probably end up on some kind of fascist flag (or arm band) as a symbol to inspire others.

Hey Joe........nice guys become floor mats for the not so nice guys.
Yeah, I think the Democrats are failing in their duty to protect America from emerging fascists. The Republicans are on their path to fascism.
 

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It is really interesting phenomena how people don't see how what is happening in US politics is precisely what is happening in Canadians politics. Just replace Trump's name with Trudeau's, change dates, and you have exact same thing.
 

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It is really interesting phenomena how people don't see how what is happening in US politics is precisely what is happening in Canadians politics. Just replace Trump's name with Trudeau's, change dates, and you have exact same thing.
They can't see it, because they're blinded by their love/hate for Trudeau/Trump.
 

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Trump has never said sorry nor shed a sympathetic tear in his life. JT is crying and apologizing his way to fascism? I don't really see the direct parallels as I view Trudeau as being weak and trying to pander to all groups, talking doublespeak out of both sides of his mouth. I don't see the cult of personality up here, except for one on this forum, that is so feverishly prevalent in the US either.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
It is really interesting phenomena how people don't see how what is happening in US politics is precisely what is happening in Canadians politics. Just replace Trump's name with Trudeau's, change dates, and you have exact same thing.
What nonsense. But I guess this is becoming a far-right talking point, because @MrMatt says this a lot as well.

Among all western countries (US, Canada, Europe), Trump is the only one who tried to use his goons to overturn the democratic process.
Trump is the only one who tried to install himself into power.
Trump is the only one who tried to declare the elections invalid.

No politician in Canada or Europe has ever done this, in recent decades. That's because we take pride in freedom and democracy.
 

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What nonsense. But I guess this is becoming a far-right talking point, because @MrMatt says this a lot as well.

Among all western countries (US, Canada, Europe), Trump is the only one who tried to use his goons to overturn the democratic process.
Trump is the only one who tried to install himself into power.
Trump is the only one who tried to declare the elections invalid.

No politician in Canada or Europe has ever done this, in recent decades. That's because we take pride in freedom and democracy.
I'm not disputing that Trump went too far trying to stay in power.
What I am saying is that the Canadian Trump Jr does similar (though lesser) things here.

I've been very clear that I don't think Trudeau is as bad as Trump, just he shares the same moral values, and exhibits some of the same behavior patterns.

If it's a "far right" talking point that both Trudeau and Trump put pressure on their AG to act contrary to the laws of their respective nations, then we have bigger problems.

It should be a concern to EVERYONE that these guys think they're above the law.

Anyone who thinks the illegal and unethical actions of Trump and Trudeau are "okay" because it's "their guy" is part of the problem.

Again, when the leader of your nation does bad things, you shouldn't support them out of blind partisanship.
 

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Trudeau just won his third election, based on his track record for the past 6 years in office.

Trump was booted out after one term and 4 years in office, based on his track record.

People vote in their own self interest and for leaders who align with their personal views.

So it appears to me that Americans weren't happy with what Trump accomplished, while Canadians continue to be happy with the progress under the leadership of Trudeau.

There is nothing that humbles the critics faster than continuing to win.

Contrary to what some may preach, Canadians know exactly what they want.
 

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So it appears to me that Americans weren't happy with what Trump accomplished, while Canadians continue to be happy with the leadership of Trudeau.
Approval is irrelevant to the issue of if they did bad things.
The point is there is a problem when people continue to support leaders who work to undermine the rule of law.
 

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It looks to me like the voters decided all the whining and complaints were irrelevant.

In the past 3 elections the Conservatives tried to win by throwing mud and every time they failed.

They need to come up with a better plan if they hope to avoid losing 4 elections in a row.
 

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It looks to me like the voters decided all the whining and complaints were irrelevant.

In the past 3 elections the Conservatives tried to win by throwing mud and every time they failed.

They need to come up with a better plan if they hope to avoid losing 4 elections in a row.
Absolutely. I completely agree.

That's WHY this is a problem.
 

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What nonsense. But I guess this is becoming a far-right talking point, because @MrMatt says this a lot as well.

Among all western countries (US, Canada, Europe), Trump is the only one who tried to use his goons to overturn the democratic process.
Trump is the only one who tried to install himself into power.
Trump is the only one who tried to declare the elections invalid.

No politician in Canada or Europe has ever done this, in recent decades. That's because we take pride in freedom and democracy.
Not true. Trudeau tried to overturn democratic process March 29, 2020. (I might be off by couple of days, but definitely march 2020)
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Trudeau did not overturn any democratic process. In fact, he was handed a minority win, and barely has any power in government unless he cooperates with other parties. Canadian democracy is functioning just fine.

The big problem we have is that the giant country just south of us is flirting with authoritarian rule, and this could become a giant problem (including for Canada).

Let's hope that Americans are able to stick with democracy and respect their own constitution. Trump and his collaborators are very dangerous men, who are a threat to America as we know it.

It's possible that in 5 or 10 years, we might have to deal with a dictatorship down south under fascist rule. They came awfully close in January.
 

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Neither did Trump. Both tried though. In March 2020 Trudeau tried. In January 2021 Trump tried.
Both failed. Luckily institutions held both wannabe tyrants back
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Neither did Trump. Both tried though. In March 2020 Trudeau tried. In January 2021 Trump tried.
Both failed. Luckily institutions held both wannabe tyrants back
What a bizarre false equivalency. Not sure why you are going down this line of argument (maybe you read it from one of your far right online sites).

Trump directly tried to seize power. Trudeau never did anything of the sort.

Trump bullied state and DOJ officials and tried to force government into suppressing the election. Trudeau never did anything of the sort.

You must have no understanding whatsoever about the political system or how democracy works. If you really think these are comparable, there's something seriously wrong with you (or maybe you need more education).
 

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He tried to remove voting powers from parliament and unilaterally make decisions in the country.
He wanted to remove voice and vote from representatives democratically elected by their constituents.

If that is not trying to seize power and violation of democracy then what is?
 
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