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Discussion Starter · #121 ·
We have conservatives on both sides of this. Eder/zinfit want laissez faire, MrMatt wants everything locked down. I don't think closing the borders entirely is needed. We just need to properly enforce quarantine.
I think a properly enforced quarantine would be sufficient, however since they're unwilling to do so, I say shut down travel.
 

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We have conservatives on both sides of this. Eder/zinfit want laissez faire, MrMatt wants everything locked down. I don't think closing the borders entirely is needed. We just need to properly enforce quarantine.
No I agree with the quarantine process I just think fully vaccinated people shouldn't be subject to it. In regard to the mutants lets be clear the geographic names are misleading . Every expert in the field has been saying covid19 is mutating on its own and it is erroneous to assume they are being imported from certain countries. As an expert from Simon Fraser said the world is a hotspot and there isn't any escaping the mutants. Canada is a good example we may-be the leader in multiple mutants. Anyways the solution to living with this covid is vaccinations. I don't need a peer review study officially approved by the FDA to understand that the vaccines have been very effective..The best example is Israel with daily counts in the 160 range and dropping. If Canada had that level of new daily cases we would be talking a 670 per day instead of 8000 per day. Let's quit trying to deny the effectiveness of vaccines and lift the restrictions for fully vaccinated people.
 

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Discussion Starter · #123 ·
No I agree with the quarantine process I just think fully vaccinated people shouldn't be subject to it. In regard to the mutants lets be clear the geographic names are misleading . Every expert in the field has been saying covid19 is mutating on its own and it is erroneous to assume they are being imported from certain countries. As an expert from Simon Fraser said the world is a hotspot and there isn't any escaping the mutants. Canada is a good example we may-be the leader in multiple mutants. Anyways the solution to living with this covid is vaccinations. I don't need a peer review study officially approved by the FDA to understand that the vaccines have been very effective..The best example is Israel with daily counts in the 160 range and dropping. If Canada had that level of new daily cases we would be talking a 670 per day instead of 8000 per day. Let's quit trying to deny the effectiveness of vaccines and lift the restrictions for fully vaccinated people.

I think once we know that the vaccines are sufficiently effective against the variants we can relax the quarantine restrictions on those individuals.
There is some evidence that COVID19 antibodies aren't very effective against the variants, this is a real concern.

For now, while we are at a crisis level, I think we should remain cautious, and quarantine everyone until we are sure they aren't a carrier. Since we don't know the effectiveness of the current vaccines against the variants, that means anyone could be a carrier.

Also variants happen everywhere, that's true, but if we restrict travel, we can reduce the number of variants that are here. India is getting hundreds of thousands of new cases per day, they are going to generate far more variants than Canada.



I think Israel is taking a prudent approach as well. They have a mandatory quarantine, that can be shorted if you are not a carrier. I think we should do this in Canada. I've been saying this since March 2020.
"The mandatory isolation duration is 14 days; it can be shortened to 10 days if two test results taken in the time intervals set in the protocol are negative."
 

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Let's quit trying to deny the effectiveness of vaccines and lift the restrictions for fully vaccinated people.
I don't think many will deny vaccine effectiveness but let the case numbers decide on when to lift restrictions. If vaccines are truely working we should be all clear not long from now.
 

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I don't think many will deny vaccine effectiveness but let the case numbers decide on when to lift restrictions. If vaccines are truely working we should be all clear not long from now.
The CDC says one shot doesn't provide an adequate level of production. They are seeing people with one shot getting covid. The story is much different with the second shot. The second shot may take a long time in Canada and it will well beyond the recommended time interval. I guess with this approach Canada is making Canadians guinea pigs in this experiment.
 

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........The story is much different with the second shot. The second shot may take a long time in Canada and it will well beyond the recommended time interval. I guess with this approach Canada is making Canadians guinea pigs in this experiment.
It is a population wide experiment that almost everyone in Canada is taking part.

The label on the bottle of Pfizer says second dose in 21 days. Seems simple enough.

Canada says, lets extend that to 4 months because we screwed up on procuring enough vaccine and we don't want to look bad.

I'm sure it will all work out.

ltr
 

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Discussion Starter · #127 ·
The CDC says one shot doesn't provide an adequate level of production. They are seeing people with one shot getting covid. The story is much different with the second shot. The second shot may take a long time in Canada and it will well beyond the recommended time interval. I guess with this approach Canada is making Canadians guinea pigs in this experiment.
Ok, so we get our second shot late, maybe we'll need a third shot.
These ideas are nice, but what we need to do is get the third wave under control and prevent a fourth wave.

Honestly I want the deaths to send, and hospital overload to get under control. We we don't want to have thousands in hospitals in perpetuity.
 

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I think once we know that the vaccines are sufficiently effective against the variants we can relax the quarantine restrictions on those individuals.
There is some evidence that COVID19 antibodies aren't very effective against the variants, this is a real concern.

For now, while we are at a crisis level, I think we should remain cautious, and quarantine everyone until we are sure they aren't a carrier. Since we don't know the effectiveness of the current vaccines against the variants, that means anyone could be a carrier.

Also variants happen everywhere, that's true, but if we restrict travel, we can reduce the number of variants that are here. India is getting hundreds of thousands of new cases per day, they are going to generate far more variants than Canada.



I think Israel is taking a prudent approach as well. They have a mandatory quarantine, that can be shorted if you are not a carrier. I think we should do this in Canada. I've been saying this since March 2020.
"The mandatory isolation duration is 14 days; it can be shortened to 10 days if two test results taken in the time intervals set in the protocol are negative."
That is for returning citizens only.

International travelers have to have prior approval from the government to travel there.
 

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Well the borders are closed to all travellers other than Canadians ...oh...with the exception of various curling teams from around the world ...that seems essential to Trudeau apparently. Two have already tested positive for Covid.
 

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SwitchHealth is in charge of the on-line -program for the third and final test for in coming travellers. Based on the numbers they are processing per day they have to be using thousands of nurses. Every on line test uses a RN. It they simply looked at the so -called liberal principle of "the greatest good for the greatest many" how about exempting vaccinating people from the third test and freeing up nurses for badly needed resources with ICU units? I am not in a conflict because I completed the final test.
 

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That is for returning citizens only.

International travelers have to have prior approval from the government to travel there.
I believe Israel allows international travellers who have been fully vaccinated. The information on the SA variant is informative but I think you have to read the full article. I figure this Pfizer vaccine provides a level similar to JNJ. Its hard to score 95% plus every time. I don't think the SA variant has emerged as much as other mutations. We can only hope that the vaccines will provide effective protection against all of the variants. The data on Astrazenca with the SA is not encouraging. IT might be useless with that mutant.
 

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Well the borders are closed to all travellers other than Canadians ...oh...with the exception of various curling teams from around the world ...that seems essential to Trudeau apparently. Two have already tested positive for Covid.
+1 for the quarantine hotel method ... it works!
 

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The CDC is saying people with two shots (fully vaccinated) are getting covid.
yes but at very extremely low numbers and the cases are very mild. Do we focus on the the glass 99.9% full or the .01? This is good news its means the vaccines are working. I might be making a mistakes because a number of posters have repeatly stated the CDC numbers are questionable. I am certainly not in that camp. They have some of the worlds best experts on pandemics and transmissions in that agency. I recent times they were in the forefront of combatting Elboa and HIV.
 

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yes but at very extremely low numbers and the cases are very mild. Do we focus on the the glass 99.9% full or the .01? This is good news its means the vaccines are working. I might be making a mistakes because a number of posters have repeatly stated the CDC numbers are questionable. I am certainly not in that camp. They have some of the worlds best experts on pandemics and transmissions in that agency. I recent times they were in the forefront of combatting Elboa and HIV.
If it were 99.9%, maybe. But the clinical trial data is more 90% full.

Check out this story:
[...]
In the first study, people who had been vaccinated with a single dose of either the Oxford-AstraZeneca or Pfizer-BioNTech vaccines were 65% less likely to get a new Covid infection.
[...]
Those who had received a second vaccine dose of Pfizer were 90% less likely to be infected. The same calculation could not be made for AZ, because too few people in the study had received a second dose as its rollout started later.
This idea that vaccinated people do not become infected is wrong. Perhaps dangerously so.
 

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I might be making a mistakes because a number of posters have repeatly stated the CDC numbers are questionable. I am certainly not in that camp.
You definitely should be in "that camp" as the CDC themselves says their numbers are understated. :)
 
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