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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I am hoping that people reading this thread might kind of just give a short blurp about the "Conditions" when you last caught a bus or used public transit in Toronto or Montreal.

These experiences will tell those who visit this Canada Money Forum how quickly the Country is recovering.

If down town Toronto or Montreal are not at 80% normal, then Canada as a country is still in failure mode.

Montreal and Toronto are the economic engines of Canada.
 

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I am hoping that people reading this thread might kind of just give a short blurp about the "Conditions" when you last caught a bus or used public transit in Toronto or Montreal.

These experiences will tell those who visit this Canada Money Forum how quickly the Country is recovering.

If down town Toronto or Montreal are not at 80% normal, then Canada as a country is still in failure mode.

Montreal and Toronto are the economic engines of Canada.
... can't say anything about Montreal (other than it's the capital of La Belle province). But Toronto's economy is definitely a major contributor to all the piggybanks over at Queen's Park + TO's CityHall + Ottawa.

Also, can't say anything about Montreal's public transit but ridership is going up in Toronto, albeit slowly. Not unexpected - which parallels with the confidence on how well the TTC manages ensuring the safety of its riders + employees.

As far as its workforce goes - we're some 6 months into the pandemic, no issues with its workforce as haven't heard of any lay-offs ... it's all "unionized" so it'll be a million years that it will belly up. Besides, they can always jack up the prices for whatever excuse they can come up with.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Are you familiar with the Toronto transportation system?
I used to live in Toronto, but not now.

I was hoping somebody could pop into this thread and say that the subway was running at 30% capacity or more. (They know because they had just been on the TTC system.)

People were using the 6 foot distance or not?

I was hoping that somebody could say that they walked through Union Station and it was 50% normal pedestrian traffic as they waited for subway service.

I was hoping that somebody might say that they stood on the Yonge/Bloor or Bloor/University platform and it was only at 50% normal or more?

These two cities are economic engines and need to succeed in order to pull Canada back from declaring bankruptcy.

We can not rely on the sweet words of the political class.

TTC stats would be a good economic thermometer to watch for any forward steps.
 

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Are you familiar with the Toronto transportation system?
I used to live in Toronto, but not now.
... you mean the public transit system known as the TTC = Toronto Transit Commission in which case it's "yes" to your question. [Or for some folks, counting on better reliability it's known as "Take The Car system.]

I was hoping somebody could pop into this thread and say that the subway was running at 30% capacity or more. (They know because they had just been on the TTC system.)
... I was just on both Lines 1 & 2 of the subway last week and the 30% capacity seems right. and I'm estimating it will move up slowly by the end of the summer ... keep in mind the "capacity %" is dependent on the time of day. And now with C19, dependent on whether people are returning to the office or not ... I would say the biggest portion of riders are those coming from the edge/outskirt of the city.

People were using the 6 foot distance or not?
... the floor on the platform, subway trains are marked (with decals) 6 ' apart. Whether people follows that is another story ... just as with the mask requirement.

Based on my rides thus far, I say the "smart" people are distancing themselves regardless. Also, previously every other seat were labeled/marked off (ie can't sit) to keep riders a distance.

The buses were particularly challenging given the limited space within the vehicle and the fact that the 2 front rows within the driver's area being cordoned off. You couldn't board from the front a few months ago. Now you can, the buses are getting crowded again as with the streetcars during certain hours.

I was hoping that somebody could say that they walked through Union Station and it was 50% normal pedestrian traffic as they waited for subway service.
... haven't been through Union Station so can't give an estimate. But I doubt it would be as high as 50% given most riders taking the GO (ie. from outside of the city) are WAH nowadays.

I was hoping that somebody might say that they stood on the Yonge/Bloor or Bloor/University platform and it was only at 50% normal or more?
... see above comment.

These two cities are economic engines and need to succeed in order to pull Canada back from declaring bankruptcy.

We can not rely on the sweet words of the political class.
... can't say anything about Montreal. Toronto known as Hogtown is definitely a major contributor to the political / public service classes' coffers. I think if Toronto goes belly up, the politicians (regardless of which level) would still have a job.

TTC stats would be a good economic thermometer to watch for any forward steps.
... it could but not the only one. [There're small businesses, property owners supporting a big portion of the piggybanks.]

What I noticed is alot of folks are switching back to using their cars as well as bikes + ebikes. The bike shops are exceptionally busy this year.

As for me, I use my 2 legs whenever possible which is better for the environment and my health plus wallet.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
... you mean the public transit system known as the TTC = Toronto Transit Commission in which case it's "yes" to your question. [Or for some folks, counting on better reliability it's known as "Take The Car system.]
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That was very kind and thoughtful of you to answer my questions. I really appreciate it. You worked hard with all that typing.

30% capacity leaves a long way to go for "Normal".

Do you travel TTC regularly and what route?
 

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^ No problem and as with the typing, no hard work ... just abit time consuming.

I agree 30% is a long way back to "normal" but if it can work its way up to 50% by the end of summer, that's pretty good. If the 2nd wave hits I think the ridership is going to drop again because of 1. the public's (re)fear, 2. the handling of the "local" pandemic is slipping, and 3. reversal of current type of riders (the non-WAH workers).

You could say I ride the TTC regularly (mostly to work downtown via Bloor/Danforth Line to University/Yonge Line but less so at this time as currently WAH.) I now ride the TTC for sporadic non-local shopping.

As soon as this pandemic is over, I can take the transit to visit friends up north or even the Ontario Science Center.

I have even taken the TTC to Pearson's International Airport for a fraction of the cost (aka cheap) of a taxi-cab/limo though the latter modes are much much more convenient especially when you need to be punctual and you have luggages to carry.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
^ No problem and as with the typing, no hard work ... just abit time consuming.
I think the virus is going to become more virulent in the fall.

I don't think a majority of schools will be able to remain open.
I think it may take at least a year, perhaps 2 years when we will see subway capacity increase to 60%.
Toronto can not survive and function as a financial center of Canada/Ontario with only 30 % capacity.
So long as people around the country are dying,.... Spacing or distancing is going to be demanded by passengers.

Distancing requirements are going to bankrupt the TTC and the City of Toronto/Montreal.

It is hard or confusing to shop when your eyes are darting around looking for "Distance" and People and not what is on the store shelves.

In Hamilton, in a shopping mall, a salesperson told friends that she had only one person in the store between 10am and 3pm.
People are not window shopping. Shopping is kind of a deliberate task now. In and out.

Politicians may decide to lie and cheat our way through the numbers and data. Choosing not to report deaths and infections. (Manipulating the numbers.)

Maybe you could kindly drop by this thread in the furture (after a subway ride) when you can tell us that capacity is improving.
 

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^
...Maybe you could kindly drop by this thread in the furture (after a subway ride) when you can tell us that capacity is improving.
... sure, no problem.

I think the TTC has already eliminated service on some routes and will continue to do so as it sees fit. However, I wouldn't be worry about the continuous low (or drop) in ridership on the TTC due to the pandemic as if I recall correctly, there's some multi-$$$ coming in to bail out the province/cities. According to the beancounters over at CityHall, operations of the TTC has always been supported through taxpayers' subsidies. I think the TTC is more like a liability than a true business service as the entire workforce (or almost) is unionized I believe. Laying off unionized employees, including the bulge over at CityHall is much much more difficult than a tooth extraction. Next to impossible.

As said previously, if and when Toronto does go belly-up, the civil servants and politicians will continue to be blowing hot air plus devising the next tax scheme ... so they can enrich themselves. Meanwhile, everyone else (the private sector, particularly small businesses) have been made the sacrificial lambs.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
^ ... sure, no problem.
I kind of look at the economy in a different fashion.
I am well aware that America and Canada will manage to "Find" money.

How much money will America be allowed to print without looking absolutely ridiculous on the world stage?

How much more can Canada borrow without the world realizing that we will never-ever be able to honour the debt?

Just counting to a trillion takes a Zillion years, never mind paying it back with interest.


How long can America keep printing money before it forfeits it's standing as World Reserve Currency?

It took 40 years to create the Federal Deficit of 20 trillion.
America is going to double that deficit in the next 18 months.

That is how I look at this Virus Event. The big picture.
I believe this to be the collapse of American empire,

A zillion people have lost faith in the American Dollar and are buying gold.

Public Transit and subway capacity in all North American cities (population of one million or more) ....and the price of gold tells me all I need to know.
 

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Well, as far as I could tell, the Montreal Transit was working on a similar capacity as it used to. Of course, people aren't too keen on taking it, and the buses were functioning with their rear doors only. This article seems to mention lots of money had to be sent in by the federal authorities. COVID-19: B.C. welcomes $2.2 billion in new federal relief as ‘critically important’

Horgan said one of the sticking points in negotiations was a cap on transit aid initially proposed by Ottawa that would have seen the available funding quickly eaten up by large systems in Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver. Ottawa eventually relented to make the funding pot open-ended, said Horgan.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I am so curious about how Montreal is doing economically, I just joined a forum and asked anybody to tell me what capacity the Montreal subway is operating at.
I will keep you tuned.
 

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Are you saying that the public transit system in Montreal is operating at normal capacity?
The offered service in the subway is regular or close enough that I can't tell the difference. I don't take the bus in Montreal but in my suburb, they have cut back the special rush hour bus lines but left the regular all day lines to the same level. It was that way through most of the spring to allow people to keep using public transit without being packed. They are bleeding money to maintain that level of service however.

Demand is nowhere near normal levels. I have yet to have someone sit next to me on the bus so definitely less than 50%. I'd say the 30% given earlier is a decent estimate of all around public transit use. It is slowly crawling back up. I would have put it around 15-20% a month ago.

People are generally good about wearing masks. Use was perhaps 50% before it was required. Now I'd guess it above 95%, with a few pulling them down on their chin to talk to each other during the ride. There are still few enough people that keeping a 1m distance is possible. 2m is unrealistic most of the time.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Demand is nowhere near normal levels. I have yet to have someone sit next to me on the bus so definitely less than 50%. I'd say the 30% given earlier is a decent estimate of all around public transit use. It is slowly crawling back up. I would have put it around 15-20% a month ago.

People are generally good about wearing masks. Use was perhaps 50% before it was required. Now I'd guess it above 95%, with a few pulling them down on their chin to talk to each other during the ride. There are still few enough people that keeping a 1m distance is possible. 2m is unrealistic most of the time.
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Thank you for that information.
Very kind of you to respond.
Gives me a realistic idea as to how well Canada is functioning.
 

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...These experiences [on public transit in Toronto or Montreay] will tell those who visit this Canada Money Forum how quickly the Country is recovering. If down town Toronto or Montreal are not at 80% normal, then Canada as a country is still in failure mode.
Seems like a suspect criteria for gauging recovery without more information.

When I rode the TTC to save time, I had many co-workers who thought I was crazy giving up the flexibility of driving a car. Had management supported remote work, something like 20% of the workforce needed to be onsite.

IMO what would really be needed to to know how many can't work remotely and used to ride public transit. I can see where the transit riders at my company not riding transit creates problems for the city but they haven't missed a pay cheque.


Cheers
 

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Are you familiar with the Toronto transportation system?
From a while ago.


.... I was hoping somebody could pop into this thread and say that the subway was running at 30% capacity or more. (They know because they had just been on the TTC system.)

People were using the 6 foot distance or not?
Is there some reason you don't believe the June report of bus ridership being at 30% of pre-covid levels?


... I was hoping that somebody could say that they walked through Union Station and it was 50% normal pedestrian traffic as they waited for subway service ... These two cities are economic engines and need to succeed in order to pull Canada back from declaring bankruptcy ... TTC stats would be a good economic thermometer to watch for any forward steps.
Not sure anecdotes are going to be that useful, especially without knowing who has to ride the TTC. I've seen people post that they far prefer biking, ride sharing services and car sharing services to public transit.


Cheers
 

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... I agree 30% is a long way back to "normal" but if it can work its way up to 50% by the end of summer, that's pretty good ...
Sure ... but a question I have is how many don't have remote work as an option and aren't using cars/bikes/sharing services.

My co-worker no longer making the daily transit ride to work is bad for the transit profits but really tells us nothing about the economy as he hasn't missed a pay cheque.


Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter #18

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I think transit ridership may provide a partial indication of recovery, but it is far from accurate. There are many factors that will reduce ridership, even though things are recovering.

  • Students are not riding right now. Schools shut down which reduces a large group of riders. For cities that school is resuming, many boards will not offer an on line option, and parents will drive there kids when possible, or carpool with other families..
  • Remote workers - 70% of my area largest employer will be working remotely for those that working the head office.
  • People who didn't drive to work may do so now. Downtown parking as become cheaper and more available in my city. For a while, my company was allowing free parking if you had to pop into the office. There are many more spots open now. People are trying to reduce the amount of time confined with random people.

Our transit ridership is probably at 30% of pre COVID levels right now.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I think transit ridership may provide a partial indication of recovery, but it is far from accurate.
Our transit ridership is probably at 30% of pre COVID levels right now.
How are the tenant's at all the store fronts able to pay the rent with so few people entering the downtown core?

I agree that tenants in towers may generate corporate income while employees work from home.

I would need to be pretty hungry and desperate to place my child in a school during the winter months because it is claimed that the virus is more virulent during low humidity wintertime.

Maybe that is Ford's plan ..... force parents to place kids in school or receive no access to government assistance. Force parents to drop the fear and paranoia and return to work.

Sure sounds like this is Trump's plan too.
 
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