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So the people actually doing something to earn money don’t deserve to get the benefits. The people living in their parent’s basement deserve the same amount of growth???
 

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We haven't even talked about how the wealthy CEOs treat their employees. My niece works at no frills and they deliberately give a 6 hour shift so they only have to give a 15 minute break. If they worked 8 hours they'd get 1/2 hour and 2 15 minute breaks. Don't even get me started on amazon. No wonder people get mad.
 

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How many jobs does your niece provide? How many hours would she work without the ceo of no frills? If life is so bad at no frills, why does she continue to work there? Someone holding a gun to her head? Blackmail? Does she also get an employee discount?
 

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Discussion Starter #307 (Edited)
As the Rich Get Richer, the Poor Get Richer


ltr
Seems like he's confusing the evolution of mankind and the difference between the rich and the poor. The evolution of mankind has led to better living conditions, that's true, but that doesn't mean the poor are getting richer faster than the rich.

As seen in the table below, the poor are definitely not getting richer faster than the rich.

20723


The argument that the poor are now living better than Louis XIV is totally wrong. I don't come home with 40 dishes ready to taste made by my servants. No, I have to go and buy something to cook. Which means, I have to work to pay for that food, those kitchen appliances, that house. Grocery stores and the wide variety of choices is just due to the evolution of mankind. That's like saying the poor are now richer simply because back in 5000 BC you had to go hunt for your own food and you had to build your own shelter and now you can buy a shelter and food. Therefore, the poor have better living conditions, therefore they are richer?

The TV example is also totally wrong. Again, that's just the evolution of technology and society, but it has nothing to do with the poor getting richer. My parents bought a computer in the 90s for $3k ($5k+ in today's dollars) and now we can buy a computer for $500 (10x less). A few decades ago, the man would go to work while the woman stayed are home with the 8 kids and they would all get food. Now, the man and the woman both go to work and they are struggling to pay for their two kids. Sure, you'll tell me they surely aren't struggling to bring food on the plate, but the desire for more has become a huge burden. We want to give so much to our kids, so we subscribe them to do many activities. Actually, materialism and greed are a burden to make the poor spend even more money and all that money goes to the profits of the rich. The rich are just tricking the poor. What do you think is happening with social media, that new addictive drug stealing the time of the young generation so that they desire more due to the targeted ads and content? And then young girls wants to look prettier, buy more cloths and makeup, and young boys wants to drive the cool cars. Sure, that was also true 50 years ago, but now there's even more things to desire and everything you do on the internet has an AI algorithm learning from you and then working on selling you more and more.

The evolution of mankind is driving that gap between the rich and the poor also because the rich also wants more. We can now buy a jet, super-cars, super-boats, super-bikes, we can go in the space, we can travel all around the world in a matter of hours, etc. That was not possible in the 1800s. That's still not possible for the poor in 2020. That's possible for the rich. The gap is increasing.

And greed being part of the human condition? Materialism being part of the human condition? In our DNA?! People want more stuff? That's what capitalism wants from you. As a minimalist, I almost choked on that. Sorry, I don't want more stuff, I want more time. More time to hike in the mountains, to gather with friends, to help others, to learn new things, to talk with strangers. As a wink to the video, I don't even own a TV and never did for the past 10 years.

The top 5% are making 139% more after 50 years, while the bottom are making 42% more. That represents $450k vs $15k. That's a 30:1 ratio. At that same rate, in 200 years, the top 5% will make $14.7M while the bottom while make $61k. That would be a 240:1 ratio. In 1967, that ratio was about 20:1. When does it have to stop before we understand the impact of the difference between the rich and the poor? Haven't you seen movies depicting a futuristic apocalyptic world with ultra-rich and ultra-poor? I know it's just movies, but it's happening right now. In the US the ultra-rich can pay for all of the healthcare they want. That's not the case for the poor.

I'm not against capitalism, but I'm against the increasing gap between the rich and the poor.
 

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Not against capitalism. Just noticing that the playing field is not level. Its more level when the rate of income increases is similar for everyone. Plus when governments amass huge debt to address a crisis, such as WW2 and now covid 19, higher marginal tax rates for the rich are warranted.
 

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So the people actually doing something to earn money don’t deserve to get the benefits. The people living in their parent’s basement deserve the same amount of growth???
Apparently you are trying to claim the poor are lazy. Its not true. the poor work like dogs.
 

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Gee, I should be allowed to perform brain surgery on you because I want to. I should be allowed to be an astronaut because I want to. I’m just as entitled to that as the poor are to be rich. In the name of fairness I shouldn’t be prevented from doing whatever I want. Why are only certain people allowed to do those things? There are ways I can become a brain surgeon or an astronaut, but being one just because I want to isn’t the way. You have to make the right choices, sitting in your parent’s basement doing drugs isn’t the path to riches, sorry. Get off your butt and go through the right steps and anyone can become rich, not everyone can become a brain surgeon no matter what they do. Is that unfair, yes it is...welcome to reality.

there is a disparity because of choices one makes, I chose never to work at no frills and to teach myself how to make money without working. Shockingly, I know, I’m more successful and complain less about my income than latebuyer’s niece. Can latebuyer’s niece copy me and become wealthier? Probably, but she’d have to make a change in her thinking. She thinks like an employee and thus will probably remain one and a low end one at that. Not my fault, her choice. I can’t fix that, and I’m unwilling to pay her for being that way.

ironically, there are actual laws preventing me from practicing surgery, but there are no laws preventing anyone from becoming rich. That’s doubly unfair, yet no one complains.
 

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Reportedly, most people doing the work pictured here don't live past 50 years. And they are not in their mothers basement doing drugs. You just make stuff up to justify your self centered perspective.
farmworkers.jpg
 

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Pluto, you are normally on my ignore list, but I saw your picture...ever been on a farm? Know any farmers personally? My uncles were farmers...they paid their harvesters big bucks (usually cash every two weeks) and, guess what, many of the workers did drugs while living at home. There was one family where the father did die before 50, suicide though. He had seven kids, all farm workers. None of them amounted to anything, just got married several times, had a bunch of kids, and moved back home after the divorce, only to repeat the process several times. All while doing drugs. Last I heard they had over 50 half siblings running around, my uncle wound up buying an entire block of houses in the local town and gave them free rent...no signs of the other parent. Reality, not made up because you want it to be true.
 

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Discussion Starter #313 (Edited)
Pluto, you are normally on my ignore list, but I saw your picture...ever been on a farm? Know any farmers personally? My uncles were farmers...they paid their harvesters big bucks (usually cash every two weeks) and, guess what, many of the workers did drugs while living at home. There was one family where the father did die before 50, suicide though. He had seven kids, all farm workers. None of them amounted to anything, just got married several times, had a bunch of kids, and moved back home after the divorce, only to repeat the process several times. All while doing drugs. Last I heard they had over 50 half siblings running around, my uncle wound up buying an entire block of houses in the local town and gave them free rent...no signs of the other parent. Reality, not made up because you want it to be true.
I was personally raised on a farm. My parents were farmers. My neighbours were farmers. My whole village of 1000 people were farmers. You are doing a complete generalisation to confirm your point of view. You are viewing only what you wish to view. It comforts you in your beliefs.

Confirmation bias.
Confirmation bias is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms or supports one's prior beliefs or values.
And Pluto's example is one out of many. But any example we'll throw at you, you'll either say they are also drug addicts, not working hard, not worthy, etc.

Tell me, can you name just one job currently paid below the average income and you believe it is a worthy job and not paid enough? Obviously not, because otherwise that would prove my point of inequities in this world. You believe there are absolutely no inequities in this world, right?
 

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So my niece is 16 and she's supposed to be developing passive income? Good grief you really are out to lunch and completely unrealistic.
 

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Nothing that can’t be overcome. Did your parents exploit their workers? Are you saying none of the workers did drugs? Did the entire town die before turning 50?

Can you tell me one job, paid below the average income, where people are forced to take it and work? Don’t like the pay, don’t do it. There are many ways to make money that don’t even require a job. There are also higher paying jobs. The fact that certain people can’t do that is not because they can’t, it’s because of choices they made.
 

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So my niece is 16 and she's supposed to be developing passive income? Good grief you really are out to lunch and completely unrealistic.

Why not my kids started earlier than that. Then again, she’ll be the one holding out her hand to my kids in the name of “fairness”. Your niece is being taught to be a victim, my kids are being taught to be successful. Unfortunately they will pay the price of your education.
 

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Increase taxes on the rich and relieve them of the burden that too much excess money always brings with it.

Nobody should have to endure the levels of stress that the rich face as the money pours in faster than they can spend it.

All those phone calls, appointments and meetings......with the bankers, the tax lawyers, the accountants, the CRA......who needs that headache.

We can shoulder some of their burden. It would be the Christian thing to do. They will thank us later when they understand the gift we unselfishly gave them.

“For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, but lose his soul?" -Mark 8:36”
 

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Many self made millionaires don’t have great formal educations. Of course they didn’t drop out of high school because of teen pregnancy, drugs, or they didn’t like it either.

It’s not like the costs of public education is limiting people. It’s choices again.
 

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Discussion Starter #320
How rising inequality hurts everyone, even the rich

When talking about the US:
In 2014 the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, a collective of the world's 35 wealthiest countries including the United States, found that rising inequality in the United States from 1990 to 2010 knocked about five percentage points off cumulative GDP per capita over that period. Similar effects were seen in other rich countries.

“The main mechanism through which inequality affects growth is by undermining education opportunities for children from poor socio-economic backgrounds, lowering social mobility and hampering skills development,” the OECD found. Children from the bottom 40 percent of households (a huge chunk of the population) are missing out on pricey educational opportunities. That makes them less productive employees, which means lower wages, which means lower overall participation in the economy.

While that's obviously bad news for poor families, it also hurts those at the top. If you're a billionaire owner of a retail or manufacturing company, you want people to be able to afford the stuff you're selling. Henry Ford offered his workers high wages not out of any altruistic impulse but because he wanted them to buy his cars.

Not all inequality is necessarily bad. A 2015 World Bank paper found that a certain amount of inequality boosts per capita GDP in developing economies by allowing wealthy entrepreneurs to invest more. But that effect gets reversed in advanced economies like our own, primarily because of the detrimental effects on educational attainment outlined above.
 
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