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Discussion Starter #281
Or wait, better than this. I don't get why a teacher in Ontario earns twice as much as a teacher in Quebec.
 

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I'm not asking a higher wage. I'm saying I'm glad that the money I earn is redistributed to some extent. Because I don't get why I - as an engineer - make two times more money than that hardworking teacher educating the kids, for instance.

I earn it, so does that teacher, yet that teacher is getting half of what I'm getting.
Teachers go into the profession knowing what the job pays. The teachers I know love their work and they also LOVE all the time off which was a big factor in choosing that career path. That along with the generous government benefits makes up for less pay. It's not always all about the money.
 

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Discussion Starter #283
It's not always all about the money.
Exactly!

And that's why we pay taxes because - at least here in Quebec - some teachers struggle financially while working hard on a career they love and so they can get benefits.

And there are many examples of jobs paying much lower but where people are hard working and loving their job.
 
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Teachers are public workers. they have unrealistic job security, can’t usually be fired at all, even when totally incompetent. Ever been in a school lately? Kids aren‘t being taught anything useful. They graduate high school unable to read, write or do math without a calculator but are taught they deserve a 60k salary...

the education system is broken. Incompetent teachers don’t need to continue to teach. Don’t even get me started on how cushy their pension is...
 

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If you guys are going to pick on people for getting government freebies, lay off the teachers and public servants. These people don't make much money and they have hard jobs (especially teachers).

Pick on the bankers. All the employees of the giant banks basically have pseudo government jobs, backed by Canada. They take risks while pretending they're a private company, then come begging to the taxpayer when they screw up and lose money. Their executives make millions of dollars in salaries and they are completely uncompetitive monopolies which get all the benefit of government support, while still making outlandishly high incomes and profits from private markets. So they are driving other small businesses, credit unions and banks out of business all while benefiting from government support.

And they know it. They deliberately take risks that no real business would take if they actually faced the risk of ruin. They did it in 2007 and they're doing it again now.

We should probably nationalize the big banks and get it over with. They are government entities and should be Crown corps. Either that, or we should force all their investment banking sides to separate out as completely distinct entities.

There are other sectors which are enriched directly by the government. Defence contractors come to mind ... all they do is insert themselves into government spending programs, deliberately over-charge the government, and make easy money that they have just about no accountability for. It's bigger in the US but exists in Canada too, and people get very rich off this. They aren't innovating, aren't conducting real business, so it's basically just cash hand-outs.

I hate hearing people pick on teachers and middle class workers in government jobs, because those jobs are actually useful (services we all need) and these people don't get paid very much anyway. These are good quality middle class jobs.

What you should set your sights on are the people making HUGE money off the backs of the taxpayer: those (big 6) banking executives, defense contractors, and other large corporations that get steady streams of massive contracts with the government, such as IBM (Phoenix payroll disaster) and IT multionationals which have absolutely garbage products and constantly rip off the taxpayer.
 

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Oh yes, we desperately need teachers to maintain their jobs producing illiterat, entitled victims who can hold out their hands for government handouts collected from all those people James criticizes, but actually make money that gets put into the system, teachers just tent to recycle government dollars. James, teachers make all their money off the backs of taxpayers...like all public employees.

as for doing their job, ask an honour student graduate for their autograph..,they cant do it because they were never taught to write. Ask them to add a 10% tip without using a calculator...they can’t. Ask them to write an essay to get a scholarship...nope, no grammar or spelling taught either. Ask them how to make money without a job...no clue. What exactly are they being taught? How hard is it to teach them nothing?

bankers, defence contractors, etc. All employ people who pay taxes, that’s new money to pay for useless government employees who only know how to ask for more money. The other big difference is, many teachers would be unemployed for not being able to produce in the private sector, the public sector hides and protects the incompetent.
 

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Oh yes, we desperately need teachers to maintain their jobs producing illiterat, entitled victims who can hold out their hands for government handouts collected from all those people James criticizes, but actually make money that gets put into the system, teachers just tent to recycle government dollars. James, teachers make all their money off the backs of taxpayers...like all public employees.
This is the second time in this thread you've criticized people for being illiterate/uneducated while simultaneously making spelling and grammatical mistakes.

Teachers should be taxpayer-funded. Every successful country in the world has a public school system, and these are public employees.
 

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Autocorrect and auto type keeps kicking in, and screwing things up...yes, I too am a product of public education (maybe I can sue and get compensation like every other group). Thanks for proving my point. it’s what you get when you rely on technology to think for you. Every successful country the world also has alternative systems, yet people like you advocate against choice. Fortunately for my kids, I was able to put them in a different program.
of course the public education system teaches you not to think for yourself and keep the status quo. Don’t look for alternatives, get a job, be poor and ask the government for wealth redistribution from people who didn’t follow that path...punish those who don’t follow the status quo.
 

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Just to return to the topic, I think some of the targeting of the wealthy is jealousy. People don't like it when others make more money than them. I have a friend who can go on more trips than me as she makes more and I don't like it but i recognize she has 2 graduate degrees and earned the money. I think what Blackhill points out in his original thread is that canadians should be grateful as we are better off then a lot of countries. The 2 teachers I know aren't grateful. They don't recognize total compensation, the pension, the holidays. However I have to ask myself if I'd like to be stuck in a classroom for 30-40 years of my life.
 

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Since I can't sleep another concern I have with taxing the wealthy is how wealthy is defined and will there be a trickle down effect where tax rates are eventually raised at lower rates as well. I'm concerned the threshold to get old age security will be lower too. All these goodies Justin gives out costs money. Let's face it the only reason he would tax the rich more is he doesn't want to jeopardize his middle class voting base and he wants to pander to the ndp. I'll bet no one here wants higher taxes and that's why they want to tax the wealthy.
 

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Since I can't sleep another concern I have with taxing the wealthy is how wealthy is defined and will there be a trickle down effect where tax rates are eventually raised at lower rates as well.
I realize you're concerned about paying more tax, yourself. But I see it differently than what you describe. I would extend this same advice to the ultra-rich themselves: make some concessions now, before it's too late.

Consider what happens if you don't correct these imbalances. By that I mean, if we continue with extremely low corporate tax rates and all the freebies that give the ultra-rich unfair advantages, including powerful central bank stimulus of asset prices. That's what the US has been doing, both under Obama and Trump (on steroids, under Trump). As this rich/poor divide widens, which is what's happening, anger and resentment grows. Eventually, society turns against the rich and there is an over-correction.

If you're afraid of getting swept up in taxing the wealthy, then you really don't want society to finally turn against the rich with extreme frustration.

So I'm on board with what you say. There is the danger that we upper middle class people can get wrapped up in all of this. But the way to prevent that from happening is to act early, and nip it in the bud. The public is already turning against the ultra-rich. We live in a democracy and the public will, eventually, get what they want. There are three choices:

(1) start taxing the rich more, now, and alleviate the public's growing resentment - or
(2) keep ignoring the writing on the wall, and eventually get a severe backlash and over correction
(3) dismantle democracy so that the angry majority can't actually stop the rich

I am arguing for (1) because the public anger is justified, and the rich/poor divide should be addressed. I think many conservatives think they can just deny this public sentiment, but they aren't thinking ahead to when it finally blows up in their face.

Trump and the Republicans are toying with (3)
 

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Interesting graph showing the top getting real income increases while the bottom is pretty flat over many decades. Given this data it is difficult to justify the idea that the top has it bad and should not pay higher marginal tax rate.
realhouseincome.png
 

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Don’t confuse the issue with facts prairie guy, people like James will never be satisfied until they are the ultra rich....they hold their hands out in the name of fairness but never put it down, unless someone comes for their money. He’s a sags jr,
 

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Consider what happens if you don't correct these imbalances. By that I mean, if we continue with extremely low corporate tax rates
What's the beef with low corporate tax rates? If you raise corp taxes they just raise prices for products and services. That means they become even more unafordable for the lowest paid. Raising corp taxes is just a way to get consumers to pay the taxes via higher prices.
 

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Not sure what you are talking about. Majority suffering? how so?
When the rich get richer the poor also get richer. Look at that graph....everyone improved. Your comment was that it wasn't proportional. My point it that it's better for everyone at the bottom to improve than for it to be perfectly proportional.
 

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Discussion Starter #300
When the rich get richer the poor also get richer. Look at that graph....everyone improved. Your comment was that it wasn't proportional. My point it that it's better for everyone at the bottom to improve than for it to be perfectly proportional.
I'd add this table fund in the same source provided by @Pluto

20722


(That's inflation adjusted)

That means the middle quintile saw its real income grow on average 0.7% more than inflation. That was even less for the 4th & bottom quintiles.

Meanwhile, the top 5% saw its real income grow on average 1.66% more than inflation.

That also means that the difference between the top 5% real income and the bottom quintile is now more than 50% wider than 53 years ago.

Back in 1967, the top 5% was doing about $188k in today's dollars. The bottom was doing about $10.7k, which is about 18x less. In 2019, the top 5% was doing about $451k while the bottom was doing about $15.2k, which is about 30x less.

And yet we say the rich are being stolen?
 
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