Canadian Money Forum banner

41 - 60 of 61 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,378 Posts
Exactly, there are even many examples of covid jumping from humans to animals and from animals to humans since this began. What's so hard to believe?
I think some people would prefer that it is the work of people, and if we just give governments more power, then can stop all these bad things from happening.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
This is the type of analysis (link below) I would have thought would have been available by now. As I said earlier, when/if something like this shows up, it will tip the scales for me. With all the fast sequencing ability we have now one would have thought it would be “easy”
SARS1 path
I am open to the frozen food as carrier path as I think that’s how a case got into NZ.
If I had to rank:
1) accidental lab release (65%)
2) really bad luck low probability frozen food transmission from some other location (15%)
3) local zoonotic (15%)
4) other sci-fi-ish (5%)
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,194 Posts
With all the fast sequencing ability we have now one would have thought it would be “easy”
Not sure why you'd think it is easy, transfer evidence can disappear fast. All it takes is a mutation in one animal that transfers to one human and if that single animal is not found ... well, that's it.

From your link,
However, the number of species in which the virus can replicate indicates that SARS-CoV is capable of efficient zoonotic transmission.

I am open to the frozen food as carrier path as I think that’s how a case got into NZ.
If I had to rank:
1) accidental lab release (65%)
2) really bad luck low probability frozen food transmission from some other location (15%)
3) local zoonotic (15%)
4) other sci-fi-ish (5%)
Given the above information I have no idea how you came up with your numbers above.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Well it’s pretty simple:
The hypothesis that a single or small number of bats gave it to a single or small number of people, and that none of these primary or intermediate hosts have yet to be identified and that it seems more unlikely than likely that it didn’t start spreading in the market has a lower likelihood of being true than:
people playing with bat viruses in a lab at the epicenter of the outbreak and they used level 2 protocols (not level 4) and that other escapes have happened from level4 labs, and that there are players involved with conflicts of interest that would seek to minimize the risks, and that it seems perfectly plausible that a lab tech could get infected and not know for days.
As I said earlier, I don’t really care either way, this is just how I’ve weighed it out in my mind. I started off at “of course it was a pangolin in the wet market” but I have shifted.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,378 Posts
This is the type of analysis (link below) I would have thought would have been available by now. As I said earlier, when/if something like this shows up, it will tip the scales for me. With all the fast sequencing ability we have now one would have thought it would be “easy”
SARS1 path
I am open to the frozen food as carrier path as I think that’s how a case got into NZ.
If I had to rank:
1) accidental lab release (65%)
2) really bad luck low probability frozen food transmission from some other location (15%)
3) local zoonotic (15%)
4) other sci-fi-ish (5%)
If I had to rank, nearly 100% of human viruses are animal-human, or mutuations of existing human viruses.

That being the case I'd say >90%+ zoonotic, and less than 10% engineered, and that's only because I do believe that China is actually doing bioweapons research.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,074 Posts
Discussion Starter · #47 · (Edited)
In the previous SARS outbreaks the initial animal to human infection created local outbreaks.

That is why the government/health protocol is to "lock down" the immediate area trying to prevent the spread of the virus.

In this case, the Chinese didn't lock down Guangdong Province where the bats reside and the supposed initial infection took place, but locked down Wuhan instead......some 1500 kms away.

That is like having an outbreak start in Ontario and locking down Saskatchewan. I think the Chinese knew the origin of the virus and locked down Wuhan.

It is baffling to me that people ignore all the circumstantial evidence of a lab leak but accept a natural animal to human transmission theory, despite it being unlike any previous SARS infection outbreaks.

Then there is the funding and political statements of those involved, which have been openly challenged by experts and left un-defended.

I also trust the Wuhan security protocols aren't being used in labs like the Canadian lab in Winnipeg.

Citizens might well demand their governments cease all such experiments, and that makes discovery of the origin highly political in nature.

To prevent similar outbreaks in the future, and possibly even more dangerous ones, scientists need to know the origin of this one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,074 Posts
Discussion Starter · #48 · (Edited)
There is still the RCMP investigation into the 2 scientists and their students being walked out of the Winnipeg lab and eventually terminated by the lab and set adrift by the University of Manitoba.

I think Canadians have a right to know what the investigation is about and the results, but all reporters are getting is refusals citing the Privacy Act.

What is the connection between those 2 Chinese scientists and the lab in Wuhan they were visiting regularly and delivering 'samples" of deadly viruses ?

An even better question is what were Chinese nationals doing working in Canada's top level lab while still connected to the Chinese military lab in Wuhan.

Why isn't the loyal Opposition asking the Liberal government these questions ? They demand information on everything else.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,378 Posts
It is baffling to me that people ignore all the circumstantial evidence of a lab leak but accept a natural animal to human transmission theory, despite it being unlike any previous SARS infection outbreaks.
Not ignoring it.
I agree it is possible, but circumstantial evidence isn't good enough for me.

I also trust the Wuhan security protocols aren't being used in labs like the Canadian lab in Winnipeg.
Bit racist?

Citizens might well demand their governments cease all such experiments, and that makes discovery of the origin highly political in nature.
Many countries already do

To prevent similar outbreaks in the future, and possibly even more dangerous ones, scientists need to know the origin of this one.
Yes, we should keep working on confirming the source.
And watching for the next pandemic.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,727 Posts
There is still the RCMP investigation into the 2 scientists and their students being walked out of the Winnipeg lab and eventually terminated by the lab and set adrift by the University of Manitoba.

I think Canadians have a right to know what the investigation is about and the results, but all reporters are getting is refusals citing the Privacy Act.
Yeah, this is a very interesting story. The fact that foreign scientists working in Winnipeg's micro biology lab were stealing samples and sending them out of the country.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,378 Posts
Yeah, this is a very interesting story. The fact that foreign scientists working in Winnipeg's micro biology lab were stealing samples and sending them out of the country.
It's been going on for years.
Many countries are still pretty openly murdering their opponents.

I'm sure many of them are working on bioweapons.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,186 Posts
For all I know, humans may be the biggest virus to all the viruses on this planet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,186 Posts
Humans are animals, not viruses.
Really you need to learn the meaning of words
... you need to expand your 'imagination? (for lack of a better word)' than stick with the conventional by-the-book reading/definitions.

For your sake, rephrasing my post:
For all I know, humans may be the biggest alien to viruses on this planet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
I recently watched an interview with a world renowned expert on where virus originate and he made some interesting observations on the COVID.

1) The theory the virus originated with bats infecting someone and that person spreading the virus has problems. The person infected would have been 1200 kms away from the city of Wuhan when he encountered the bats. He then would have traveled the 1200 kms to Wuhan and spread the virus. Yet.....there was no infection outbreak in the area where the bats live. There was nobody contracting the virus along the journey to Wuhan. The outbreak started in Wuhan.

2) The COVID virus has an unusual DNA, which is not found in natural surroundings. It is identical to the type of change that is caused by "increase of function" types of experiments. No scientist has been able to explain how the COVID mutated naturally in exactly that fashion.

3) The WHO investigation was prevented from viewing the original data or talking to the Chinese lab researchers. They did note the Wuhan lab safety protocols were weak and lacking in many areas. The investigators could not come to any concrete conclusions.

4) There have been defectors to the US who worked in the Wuhan lab. They have been quickly silenced by the US government.

5) The Chinese knew immediately what they were dealing with. They immediately locked down Wuhan entirely. Nobody was allowed outside of their homes and they were spraying disinfectant all over the city in a frantic attempt to kill the virus. Traces of the virus was found near the Wuhan laboratory and the wet market. Early statements by President XI indicated they knew they had a very serious problem.......a possible catastrophe to deal with. The US embassy was immediately evacuated. Video started to surface from Wuhan showing people being moved by attendants in full protective gear. Citizens were welded into their homes. Drones were flying around telling people to get off the streets. Shut down violators were arrested and dragged off. All businesses were closed. The transit systems were closed. The streets were empty of people. It was a total lock down strongly enforced by the police.

6) The scientist said he COULD NOT say for certain the virus originated in the Wuhan lab......but he said there was no other explanation.

7) Why would authorities cover up the origin ? It could be because those types of experiments are deemed necessary to research future virus pandemics.
If admitted that the virus escaped the lab, there would be a global outcry against all such research, that many scientists including Dr. Fauci want to continue.

8) The Canada connection......what happened in the Winnipeg lab has never been disclosed. A couple of Chinese researchers were escorted out of the lab and later terminated. The RCMP has been investigating and hasn't released the findings, but the lab has said that "security protocols were breached". Why is the government and even the opposition parties not asking questions about the investigations ? It is like it doesn't exist.

So we don't know for certain if the virus came from a leak at the Wuhan lab, but it looks like the most likely origin.

We should know what happened in the Winnipeg lab.

Some will say it doesn't matter, but if such experiments are being carried out in Winnipeg as well.....the people should know the danger that represents.

Researchers of viruses also say that it is imperative to know where and how viruses are developed, to prevent or prepare for future outbreaks.
I read a Chinese scientist in our Canada, leaked it to someone in whuhan. So, who knows?? I've never heard so much about the "Fake News" as I have in the past 4yrs . Sometimes it's just so hard to know what to believe. Stick with your most trusted resource and all we can do is prey!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
It’s been a string month for lab leak speculation:
Updating my ranked list:
1) accidental lab release (75%)
2) really bad luck low probability frozen food transmission from some other location (10%)
3) local zoonotic (10%)
4) other sci-fi-ish (5%)

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,074 Posts
Discussion Starter · #57 ·
I think with the release of the Fauci and other scientists emails........the probability of a lab leak and massive coverup is hitting about 99% now.

The remaining 1% can be divided up by the other possibilities. The media has found the smoking gun.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,074 Posts
Discussion Starter · #59 ·
Interesting developments about the lab in Winnipeg.

The investigation is being headed by the serious crimes and national security division of the RCMP.

The investigation has been moved from an administration problem to one involving national security.

One of the students brought to the lab by the Chinese researchers is a member of the PLA military of China.

Why were they allowed to even be in the top level lab and allowed to send Ebola and other deadly pathogens out of the lab ?

Why haven't charges been laid yet ? Perhaps this is the reason.

"This would also explain why you haven't charged them, because once you charge them, then eventually you have to put people on trial. And when you put people on trial, then you have to disclose the evidence that you have. So the government might quite intentionally be trying to keep this sort of relatively below the radar as much as it can," he said.

 
41 - 60 of 61 Posts
Top