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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I recently watched an interview with a world renowned expert on where virus originate and he made some interesting observations on the COVID.

1) The theory the virus originated with bats infecting someone and that person spreading the virus has problems. The person infected would have been 1200 kms away from the city of Wuhan when he encountered the bats. He then would have traveled the 1200 kms to Wuhan and spread the virus. Yet.....there was no infection outbreak in the area where the bats live. There was nobody contracting the virus along the journey to Wuhan. The outbreak started in Wuhan.

2) The COVID virus has an unusual DNA, which is not found in natural surroundings. It is identical to the type of change that is caused by "increase of function" types of experiments. No scientist has been able to explain how the COVID mutated naturally in exactly that fashion.

3) The WHO investigation was prevented from viewing the original data or talking to the Chinese lab researchers. They did note the Wuhan lab safety protocols were weak and lacking in many areas. The investigators could not come to any concrete conclusions.

4) There have been defectors to the US who worked in the Wuhan lab. They have been quickly silenced by the US government.

5) The Chinese knew immediately what they were dealing with. They immediately locked down Wuhan entirely. Nobody was allowed outside of their homes and they were spraying disinfectant all over the city in a frantic attempt to kill the virus. Traces of the virus was found near the Wuhan laboratory and the wet market. Early statements by President XI indicated they knew they had a very serious problem.......a possible catastrophe to deal with. The US embassy was immediately evacuated. Video started to surface from Wuhan showing people being moved by attendants in full protective gear. Citizens were welded into their homes. Drones were flying around telling people to get off the streets. Shut down violators were arrested and dragged off. All businesses were closed. The transit systems were closed. The streets were empty of people. It was a total lock down strongly enforced by the police.

6) The scientist said he COULD NOT say for certain the virus originated in the Wuhan lab......but he said there was no other explanation.

7) Why would authorities cover up the origin ? It could be because those types of experiments are deemed necessary to research future virus pandemics.
If admitted that the virus escaped the lab, there would be a global outcry against all such research, that many scientists including Dr. Fauci want to continue.

8) The Canada connection......what happened in the Winnipeg lab has never been disclosed. A couple of Chinese researchers were escorted out of the lab and later terminated. The RCMP has been investigating and hasn't released the findings, but the lab has said that "security protocols were breached". Why is the government and even the opposition parties not asking questions about the investigations ? It is like it doesn't exist.

So we don't know for certain if the virus came from a leak at the Wuhan lab, but it looks like the most likely origin.

We should know what happened in the Winnipeg lab.

Some will say it doesn't matter, but if such experiments are being carried out in Winnipeg as well.....the people should know the danger that represents.

Researchers of viruses also say that it is imperative to know where and how viruses are developed, to prevent or prepare for future outbreaks.
 

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I recently watched an interview with a world renowned expert on where virus originate and he made some interesting observations on the COVID.
Sorry, didn't read any further.
'watched an interview' - how about a link so we can watch it for ourselves?
'world renowned expert' - what are his credentials? who is it? what's his background?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
There is no way to link to a television interview unless it is posted online.

There are many articles online about possible origins. I thought this guy asked some interesting questions I hadn't heard before.

The US warned the Chinese the Wuhan lab lacked security protocols for the work they were doing just 2 years before the outbreak.

The Wuhan lab was conducting "gain of function" experiments on the COVID virus..........this virus.

Here is a link to that story. Lots of experts quoted therein.

The research was designed to prevent the next SARS-like pandemic by anticipating how it might emerge. But even in 2015, other scientists questioned whether Shi’s team was taking unnecessary risks. In October 2014, the U.S. government had imposed a moratorium on funding of any research that makes a virus more deadly or contagious, known as “gain-of-function” experiments.
As many have pointed out, there is no evidence that the virus now plaguing the world was engineered; scientists largely agree it came from animals. But that is not the same as saying it didn’t come from the lab, which spent years testing bat coronaviruses in animals, said Xiao


 

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Sorry, didn't read any further.
'watched an interview' - how about a link so we can watch it for ourselves?
'world renowned expert' - what are his credentials? who is it? what's his background?
No kidding ... maybe post the name of the show and did they have a segment on UFO's right after the covid piece? :)
 

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In the absence of any well thought out rebuttal......
When people are launching conspiracy theories an appropriate rebuttal is a request for evidence.

But yeah, some unnamed expert from some unnamed video, that you can't provide a reference to isn't a very strong claim.

Remember there were doctors and experts claiming masks don't work, quarantines don't work, lockdowns don't work, and COVID is a hoax, so I'll remain skeptical of your claim.

Personally my favourite conspiracy is that COVID19 was actually launched as bioweapon attack at the military games.
That's a nice one, apparently with "officials" and "spokesmen" claiming all sorts of fun things.



I'm not saying I believe it, but it sounds like a really good China-Cold-War spy novel plot. Fortunately someone already wrote that book in '96.
Maybe just read Executive Orders by Tom Clancy, which uses weaponized ebola, and they have martial law and all sorts of wonderful things. Warning it is an 874 page book, but I think it was actually written by Tom Clancy, so it's better than the later ghostwritten books.
 

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I don't think the idea outlined by sags in the op is a conspiracy theory at all. It's always seemed like the most likely scenario. China's draconian lockdown was less about the danger of the virus and more about trying to cover up a massive **** up and embarrassment on a global scale.

Side note, why is the lab scenario considered a conspiracy theory while the bat/pangolin/wet market theory is simply accepted? As far as I know neither theory has been proven nor disproven.
 

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I don't think the idea outlined by sags in the op is a conspiracy theory at all. It's always seemed like the most likely scenario. China's draconian lockdown was less about the danger of the virus and more about trying to cover up a massive **** up and embarrassment on a global scale.

Side note, why is the lab scenario considered a conspiracy theory while the bat/pangolin/wet market theory is simply accepted? As far as I know neither theory has been proven nor disproven.
What definition do you have for conspiracy theory?
Mine is
  1. a belief that some covert but influential organization is responsible for a circumstance or event.
So both sags, and the ones listed in my articles are all conspiracy theories. It's important to note that the term conspiracy theory explains the theory, but it is not a judgement on the validity of the theory.

The bat/pangolin/wet market theory is just a theory, because it lacks the conspiratal elements that would make it a conspiracy theory.

I think that many people have accepted many theories, I think that some choose to accept the less blameful theories because the more malevolent theories are very scary.
 

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There is no way to link to a television interview unless it is posted online.
Yes there is, several in fact. Here is an example.

For what it's worth, a citation is the academic worlds way to "link" to source material.
 

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Dr. Redfield, the former director of the CDC, says that he believes the virus originated in the lab. In my opinion, it is definitely a possibility - not just a conspiracy theory.
 

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Dr. Redfield, the former director of the CDC, says that he believes the virus originated in the lab. In my opinion, it is definitely a possibility - not just a conspiracy theory.
Well if it was a lab accident, no conspiracy (except the coverup)
If it was an actual covert attack launched from a lab, that is by definition a "conspiracy theory"

Just because it is a conspiracy theory (which it is), isn't a judgement on the validity of the theory.
 

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What definition do you have for conspiracy theory?
Mine is
  1. a belief that some covert but influential organization is responsible for a circumstance or event.
So both sags, and the ones listed in my articles are all conspiracy theories. It's important to note that the term conspiracy theory explains the theory, but it is not a judgement on the validity of the theory.

The bat/pangolin/wet market theory is just a theory, because it lacks the conspiratal elements that would make it a conspiracy theory.

I think that many people have accepted many theories, I think that some choose to accept the less blameful theories because the more malevolent theories are very scary.
Occam's razor is at play. What's more likely - a bat with a virus (which nobody can point to) flys&crawls 1200km to your meal plate causing this world wide plague or junior tech af&^-up in the lab? My money is on the latter ---- screwup.
 

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Occam's razor is at play. What's more likely - a bat with a virus (which nobody can point to) flys&crawls 1200km to your meal plate causing this world wide plague or junior tech af&^-up in the lab? My money is on the latter ---- screwup.
I agree

Most viral strains naturally hopped from animals to humans, and very few are the result of labs accidentally releasing secretly engineered bioweapons
Occams razor is that COVID19 is the result of the natural process, because it happens all the time.
That's also why we monitor livestock for disease, and the concern with the unregulated markets is the lack of monitoring, which can lead to this.

It's normal, expected and we already take measures to catch this type of thing early. that's the simplest example.
 

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All options are possible:
  • wet market
  • lab accident
  • deliberate spread
I agree all 3 are possible.

However the simplest and most likley is the normal animal -> human jump that happens all the time.
It could have been a wet market, as that's an ideal environment for it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
The Congress announced they will be holding an investigation into the origin of the virus.


US State documents revealed Chinese lab researchers were sick with COVID just before the pandemic spread in Wuhan.

Former US Secretary of State Pompeo said it was a lab leak. Former CDC head Redford said it was likely a lab leak.

Biden's Secretary of State Blinken said the Chinese are being uncooperative with investigators+.

The WHO said they were prevented from accessing all the information.

The Chinese can end the suspicion by allowing a full investigation. They appear more interested in ending all investigations.

The RCMP should be telling Canadians what was going on in the Winnipeg lab.

The government is citing the Privacy Act from disclosing what the investigation is about and why the two Chinese scientists were fired from the lab.

 

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What definition do you have for conspiracy theory?
Mine is
  1. a belief that some covert but influential organization is responsible for a circumstance or event.
So both sags, and the ones listed in my articles are all conspiracy theories. It's important to note that the term conspiracy theory explains the theory, but it is not a judgement on the validity of the theory.

The bat/pangolin/wet market theory is just a theory, because it lacks the conspiratal elements that would make it a conspiracy theory.

I think that many people have accepted many theories, I think that some choose to accept the less blameful theories because the more malevolent theories are very scary.
The definition of conspiracy:
a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful

There is nothing in the theory that Sags brought forward to suggest that this was in any way planned.

The theory of an accidental lab release is no more of a conspiracy theory than the pangolin theory. Neither theory suggests pre-planning for a desired result.

The conspiracy theory is China's efforts to hide, lie about, and cover up the accidental lab release. Nearly impossible to prove, but easy to believe.
 
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