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And luckily the courts are there and perfectly capable of handling these situations. As they did, with the 2020 election.

The courts heard the challenges and asked to see evidence of voter fraud. Very minor examples of irregularities were presented. In one case, the vote was corrected and it put Trump even further behind his original count. There was a FULL recount in one state, as I recall.

So the democratic system works, which is what's so great about this.

Unfortunately you have characters like Trump, Roger Stone, Steve Bannon who still push the false story of "voter fraud" and cause direct harm to the democratic system, and that's the real problem. These are people who operate 'in bad faith', and now they've brainwashed millions of people into thinking there is a great injustice here, when there is absolutely no such thing.
I agree, unfounded, or poorly supported, or limited claims of voter fraud are a problem.

However I do believe that there are legitimate concerns.

These are two distinctly different concerns, and while some think they are the same issue (and for some people they are) they really are different.

I think an election that allows significant numbers of voters to vote, without showing any form of ID, is suspect.
To reiterate, this IS LEGAL, I'm not claiming that laws were broken, I just think voting without proving your identity or right to vote is a bad idea.
 

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Servants of political elites should know their place. Unsure why some are complaining.
Alex Horton

@AlexHortonTX

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Hundreds of Guard soldiers relegated to the Senate garage, breathing in exhaust fumes and covid. Story coming in a bit.

US shocked after National Guardsmen kicked out of Capitol Building and forced to lodge at parking lot after inauguration
 

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Under Trump they're in the Capital building.
Under Biden, they're banished to the Garage, so they "don't get in the way".

At least it seems non-partisan that the troops guarding them should be treated a bit better.
 

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The shame is that the troops are still needed and may be there for quite some time.

The Republicans continue to fuel the flames of insurrection on one hand, while talking about "unity" on the other.

President Biden is going to have to set the Republicans straight on who won the election and holds all the power.

Institute the filibuster rule and start legislating. Only when Americans see some good results will they concede that Biden advocates for them.
 

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Servants of political elites should know their place. Unsure why some are complaining.
Alex Horton
@AlexHortonTX

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11h

Hundreds of Guard soldiers relegated to the Senate garage, breathing in exhaust fumes and covid. Story coming in a bit.

US shocked after National Guardsmen kicked out of Capitol Building and forced to lodge at parking lot after inauguration
... what were Mr. Horton expecting? Residency at Trump's hotel?
 

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The shame is that the troops are still needed and may be there for quite some time.

The Republicans continue to fuel the flames of insurrection on one hand, while talking about "unity" on the other.

President Biden is going to have to set the Republicans straight on who won the election and holds all the power.

Institute the filibuster rule and start legislating. Only when Americans see some good results will they concede that Biden advocates for them.
Trying to turn a democracy into a dictatorship won't make things better.
The Democrats have a very slim majority.
 

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Trying to turn a democracy into a dictatorship won't make things better.
The Democrats have a very slim majority.
They have a mandate. Although the senate is split 50-50......the Democrat “50“ represents approx 40 million more people than the Republican “50”.....on top of the healthy presidential popular vote mandate And electoral college mandate. It was a decisive victory.
 

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The attack on the Capital is revealing the depth of the treasonous activity.

There is mounting evidence that "insiders" were directing the mob to the offices of the politicians, and the Trump campaign is being tied to funding some of the mob leaders.

The wife of SCOTUS Clarence Thomas is implicated in paying for buses to deliver the mob to the Capital and providing rooms for some mob leaders.

It is reported that 19 Capital police officers and 100 National Guards were infected with COVID from the riot. The numbers continue to rise.

It makes one wonder how many people in the mob will be infected and then returned home to spread it around their community.

And.......it is reported that Mitch McConnell wants Trump convicted. He wants Trump out of the Republican Party and banished from politics.

The "blowback" from this riot is far beyond what Trump or the organizers could have imagined. Americans are pissed and want them punished.
 

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The attack on the Capital is revealing the depth of the treasonous activity.

There is mounting evidence that "insiders" were directing the mob to the offices of the politicians, and the Trump campaign is being tied to funding some of the mob leaders.
So?

There is documented evidence that Biden campaign was funding BLM rioters. We're not talking small amounts, we're talking millions.

To me it's obvious that there are likely sympathies to political activists.

I do think that giving money to domestic terrorists is unacceptable, it's one thing to support their protests, it's another to support violence.
 

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Discussion Starter #250 (Edited)
You really don't understand why this is a major problem?

Trump, and many Republicans, attempted to illegally seize power. They tried to overturn the democratic election to install Trump as dictator. They tried to bully states into faking their election results. This plan was orchestrated by Trump, Giuliani, and many Republicans.

Trying to seize power by corrupting/overturning an election is what dictators in third world countries do. That's why it's a problem.

BLM rioters are completely irrelevant and inconsequential here. They are a nuisance, but they did not overturn elections or try to overthrow the government, or install themselves as dictators.

Trump was very close to seizing power. This is why it's so scary. There has to be severe consequences for Trump and everyone who assisted him in this scheme.
 

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You really don't understand why this is a major problem?

Trump, and many Republicans, attempted to illegally seize power. They tried to overturn the democratic election to install Trump as dictator. They tried to bully states into faking their election results. This plan was orchestrated by Trump, Giuliani, and many Republicans.

Trying to seize power by corrupting/overturning an election is what dictators in third world countries do. That's why it's a problem.

BLM rioters are completely irrelevant and inconsequential here. They are a nuisance, but they did not overturn elections or try to overthrow the government, or install themselves as dictators.

Trump was very close to seizing power. This is why it's so scary. There has to be severe consequences for Trump and everyone who assisted him in this scheme.

My "so" is in reference to the fact that some campaign staff are extremist sympathizers.
Sags made unsupported claims of stuff, which might be true. But really office locations are public knowledge. I'd imagine it's literally someones job to provide maps and directories of congressional offices.

Bidens campaign staff gave millions of dollars to terrorists. << Thats a bigger problem.


You don't really understand that I don't support the attempts to illegaly seize power.
I also don't accept the attempts to illegitimately seize power.

I agree that for the illegal actions there should be consequences. I've never said anything else.

The issue I have is the free pass that other groups, with different political affiliations get.

It was wrong to storm the capital, it was wrong to attempt to illegally overturn a lawful election.
What are you not getting here? I am not supporting any of the illegal actions. I complained about the lack of law enforcement against the riots all summer, and the lack of proper security at the capital during the riot.


I think the problem is that I do support the right exercise legal options. I might not agree, I think they might be counterproductive, but if it's legal, I guess they can.
 

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@James
Really the thing that boggles my mind is how you are simultaneously
1. Against the illegal actions of some Trump suppporters
2. Against illegal actions of Trump
3. Against legal actions of Trump supporters.
4. Against legal actions of law enforcment.
5. Not clearly against illegal actions of other groups

I'm completely in support of 1 &2, but 3-5 I don't get it.
Why are you so upset about legal acts? or so forgiving of illegal actions to those you seem sympathetic to?
 

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I agree, unfounded, or poorly supported, or limited claims of voter fraud are a problem.

However I do believe that there are legitimate concerns ...

I think an election that allows significant numbers of voters to vote, without showing any form of ID, is suspect.
Then you must be happy with about two decades ago, almost no states required voter ID to more than half requiring it. :)

'Course there's lots of other things to fix, like the method for determining who to remove from voter rolls. The numbers added back show the criteria are likely broader than should be. There's also that a comparison of the reason listed for removal and the source document has some reasons running at a 25% accuracy rate. Plus there are those who received removal letters that don't fit any of the criteria (especially the poll worker).


... To reiterate, this IS LEGAL, I'm not claiming that laws were broken, I just think voting without proving your identity or right to vote is a bad idea.
'Course it's interesting that some of the limited number of states that allow voting without ID are republican controlled.


Cheers
 

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Then you must be happy with about two decades ago, almost no states required voter ID to more than half requiring it. :)

'Course there's lots of other things to fix, like the method for determining who to remove from voter rolls. The numbers added back show the criteria are likely broader than should be. There's also that a comparison of the reason listed for removal and the source document has some reasons running at a 25% accuracy rate. Plus there are those who received removal letters that don't fit any of the criteria (especially the poll worker).


'Course it's interesting that some of the limited number of states that allow voting without ID are republican controlled.


Cheers
I'm glad they're making progress, but it's really slow.


I think the political affiliation is interesting.
Seems Republican states are more likely to have the more progressive voter ID requirements.

Democrat states (California is a big one) don't seem to require ID quite as much.
 

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Discussion Starter #255
@James
Really the thing that boggles my mind is how you are simultaneously
I'm not going to go into details because you are mischaracterizing my posts.

The real mystery is why you're not outraged by a highly corrupt leader who just attempted to seize power, like a dictator does. Trump phoned Georgia's leadership, threatened them, and committed election fraud. Trump was about to fire the AG to install a loyalist, to force/threaten Georgia into compliance.

These are the acts of a dictator. The US was very nearly taken over by a dictator who tried to overrule the election results and install himself into power. And in a last attempt, his goons orchestrated a physical assault on the Capitol to use violence.

And here we are, weeks later, and some in his party still support the dictatorial power grab. These are extremely dangerous people, enemies of democracy and enemies of government.
 

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Discussion Starter #257
Motion: shut this thread down.
This will be a topic of discussion for a very long time... this kind of corruption will take years to root out (this is far more severe than Nixon and one of the most severe attacks on US government in history). This clearly won't end with the election. You can shut this thread down, but there will be lots of other follow ups to discuss.

So if the General section is going to allow political discussions, then we'll have political discussions. The posts we have in this thread are completely on topic, for this thread.

However perhaps General should no longer allow political discussions. That's the other option, and I'd support that too.

Some people enjoy political discussions, others hate it. I'm not sure how to tackle that issue.
 
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