[humble_pie]

TDW settled a class action lawsuit on this matter. As a part of the settlement, they amended their client agreements to provide all relevant disclosures about FX charges.

yes, you provided the link, thanks very much.

but the suit was about FX fees on stock transactions, was it not? the other class actions have also been about stock transactions, have they not?

no class action has ever focused on dividends?

the matter of FX fees on USD dividends paid by 20 canadian companies when shares are held in all types of canadian accounts has never been a class action matter? the only class actions, so far, have involved stock transactions in registered accounts only?

is the information regarding FX fees that is provided to canadian investors truly either complete, from a relevancy point of view, or disclosed in a manner & language that clients can easily understand?

has there ever been any attempt to train call centre representatives to deal accurately with this issue? right now i can see that BMO has made a nominal effort to train representatives to handle incoming RRSP clients. (it's a tricky point - some clients even resent it - but the BMO reps have been trained to explain that stocks intended to receive USD dividends in rrsp must be toggled into the USD side of the dual-currency account.)

on a serious note i believe that a case could be taken to the competition bureau, under the Competition Act. The issue would be, not the charging of FX fees per se, but rather the failure to communicate and disclose these fees adequately and transparently, across all brokerages in one manner or another, across canada. The case would seek to examine whether the brokerage industry, at the highest level, has colluded to maintain high foreign exchange fees all these many years & decades, by denying & refusing to show adequate information to their clients.

 

[GoldStone]

it's when we get into secret kickback deals that my old-school antennae go up.

You see it as a secret kickback, I see it as a trivial refund that any customer is free to ask for. Let's agree to disagree.

These are bad news for journalists.

Yes, but I'm not a journalist. I'm not here to influence anyone. Also note how open I'm about me wanting to get a refund.

-----

Re: TDW class action

I don't know enough to comment. I'm not a lawyer.

 

[Squash500]

i had/have roughly similar figure ... in 2012 nice PA team manager offered to refund me these rrsp FX fees in cash ...

but i refused. See, goldstone, if u are aspiring to publish your writings on finance here, u should adhere to proper journo standards.

one cannot accept anything from any subject while continuing to write about them. Alas one will lose all authenticity, all objectivity. One will become compromised, even tainted.

it's ok to accept advertised promos that are publicly & democratically available to all who fit a merchant's criteria. What's not ok is to accept hidden under-the-table benefits that are not publicly available.

for a measley $82, are u willing to shut down & silence forever your ability to call the TD conduct "maddening?"

all this is why i thought we should keep a tally of what under-the-table benefits the big green is offering to keep clients in the stable.

I got the "big green " to waive those stupid $2 charges for paper statements. I told a PA team manager to put me on the "exceptions" list which he did. What I like the most about TDDI is the "streaming quotes" feature.

I'm not involved in US dollar conversions....mainly because my RRSP is too small in value. However IMHO; TDDI could easily make the changes that are needed in terms of rrsp FX fees but not enough TDDI investors understand what is going on and how they are being taken advantage of.

Obviously TDDI is making too much money on these FX fees to voluntarily change their ways of doing business.

 

[Squash500]

no i'm not kidding & you're not talking about a refund for a messed-up bill. You're talking about asking for a special deal - some might call it a bribe - that's worth $82, strictly to offset $82 in FX fees during one year, that you keep on complaining about in this forum.

after one year, what you going to do? re-negotiate another measley $82 concession?

don't you think the big green will know how treacherous you are, how you'll take their money but continue to bee eye tee see aitch behind their back? don't you think they're reading every word here? at least their little social media journatillos & journatilettes are reading ...

but to carry on, what about your readers here? i mean, you had a certain credibility as a sandpaper-voiced prophet of the couch potato religion, which you've already compromised by declaring that your best individual stock pick allowed you to near-double your TFSA in one short year while your indexed couch, well, it just plodded with the index.

i'm serious when i say that if you take as much as one dollar under the table from the big green in return for a cheap one-year deal, you will lose - at least for that year - any right to sing about how "maddening" they are.

better you should show some responsibility for your fellow cmf mates & seek a refund of *all* FX fees paid on *all* USD dividends in *all* registered accounts owed by *all* clients for the entire past year.

you'd have far less chance of success, but at least it would be a decent thing to do.

that's what i did when i corresponded with the big green in 2013. I didn't ask for anything for myself. I asked on behalf of *all* clients who are receiving USD dividends at the big green.

This post is kind of ridiculous but carry on---LOL.

 

[humble_pie]

I submitted the above letter ... to the TD Help forum on Friday at 3:20 pm.

As of right now, my post has not appeared on the webpage.

Let's be patient and see if TD responds by early next week.

gosh. I wrote to em in may/13. The IIROC regulations require that they reply within 90 days. They are allowed to reply by stating they will take an extension of time.

late in august, on the 93rd day, i received a printed letter in hard copy stating that they required another 60 days.

i finally received an answer in october, nearly 5 months later.

the response focused 100% on the double FX fees being charged on USD DRIP dividends in registered accounts. All other FX issues in my plaint were ignored.

seems it's not exactly green light go over there.

 

[My Own Advisor]

Hey all,

I just wrote TDDI as well...my post hasn't appeared on their public page but hopefully it will next week. I had Avrex vet my email before I sent it

Our two RRSPs collected about $4,500 USD in dividends last year before forced conversion. Assuming the same 1.6% penalty that's $72. Some of our US holdings DRIP as well, like VTI, JNJ, PG, so with the double-dip I figure I'm losing about $100 to TDDI every year I don't use a USD RRSP.

That works out to $8 per month. Annoying, yes. Enough to switch, maybe this year if the can't get keep their commitment to roll something out end of 2014.

I might lobby for some free trades. That would be good.

I'm no lawyer, but I suspect you could make a case that TDDI is not very good at disclosure, let alone full disclosure, so you could make a case with the competition bureau.

I will post the TDDI response when I get it, even if it is a canned response/form letter. *sigh*

 

[GoldStone]

Some of our US holdings DRIP as well, like VTI, JNJ, PG, so with the double-dip I figure I'm losing about $100 to TDDI every year I don't use a USD RRSP.

It is my understanding that market DRIPs like VTI should wash the FX rates as of Q4 2013. Treasury DRIPs like JNJ and PG will continue to double-dip.

 

[mrPPincer]

Looking through the last few ETF market drips with TDDI in my non-reg acct. it seems TDDI is dripping at pretty much the highest market price on that given day.

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for now, but given their (TDDI's) proven behavior patterns, it does warrant some looking into.

When I have some time I'll check over my non-reg. market drips.
If they are doing this consistently I'll be moving my non-registered account out too, along with my TFSA & RSP.
Incidentally, my non-r is by far the biggest chunk of my portfolio.

I do have the feeling that TDDI is quietly waiting it out for all of us that are aware of their slimy behavior to leave so that they can continue to keep silently fleecing the ignorant.

 

[gibor365]

Small update for CIBC FX rate (buys):

Jan 24 CIBC rate 1.10750, BoC noon 1.1062

Jan 23 CIBC rate 1.11250, BoC noon 1.113

Jan 24 (record date Jan 16) Goldcorp dividend: CIBC FX rate 1.112
Boc rate on record 1.0926
Boc rate on paymant: 1.1062
Looks like i got better FX rate than BoC's

HP, what was you FX in TDDI?

 

[webber22]

Looking through the last few ETF market drips with TDDI in my non-reg acct. it seems TDDI is dripping at pretty much the highest market price on that given day.
.......

If you have an example? I don't believe TD sets the drip price, that's set by the issuer - you can check their website for the drip price

 

[mrPPincer]

when it's a treasury drip yes, but when it's a market drip the brokerage buys the shares on the open market.
I'll take a closer look at all my older market drips later for comparison.
It's a little off topic on this thread so I might start a new one when I have the numbers, to avoid confusion/distraction here.

 

[humble_pie]

Jan 24 CIBC rate 1.10750, BoC noon 1.1062

HP, what was you FX in TDDI?

gibor i'm going with the jan 24 BOC noon rate of 1.1062.

for the goldcorp DRIP div, td converted at 1.0945.

this represents an FX fee on TD's part of 1.07%, which is the lowest i've ever seen em charge.

however, a fee of 1.07% is still an extremely far cry from the zero-FX-wash feature that they promised the new patch would deliver.

my conclusion is that the so-called patch - which was supposed to cure all USD DRIP dividends in registered accounts - is failing, at least in parts.

the fault may be that the patch fails for USD DRIP dividends from canadian companies. I'm suggesting this because other reliable posters have volunteered here that some recent USD DRIP dividends - from ETFs i believe - were indeed being converted in TD rrsp without any FX fees.

 

[fersure]

Just as an aside, I see Gordon Pape (whose newsletters, in part, are reprinted in TDDI's research section), came out strongly in favour of purchasing Canadian companies that pay dividends/distributions in $US. No conflict of interest there on TD's part.:rolleyes2:

 

[humble_pie]

fersure the issue of hidden broker FX fees on 20-important-canadian-companies-that-pay-USD-dividends is an all-broker issue, not just a TD issue

they are *all* doing it
tch

did mister Pape know to tell his readers that they should keep their 20-important-canadians-etc in a USD account, never in a CAD account, because in CAD account the broker is going to charge high FX fees on the dividends?

 

[GoldStone]

Pape's idea makes no sense to me. Pick stocks based on the currency of the dividend? Seems rather silly.

 

[My Own Advisor]

For sure GoldStone. Or, Pape has no clue.

 

[humble_pie]

avrex? advisor? did anybody manage to land anything on td's social media page?

what i find is that every rep has a different idea about what's going on with USD dividends in rrsp. Some have no clue at all.

 

[avrex]

The letter in my original post, never appeared on the TD Helps website. It was obviously rejected.
Maybe they didn't like me mentioning the embarrassing delay of their USD RRSP.
Or maybe when they saw that I signed the letter with my URL name (www.AvrexMoney.com), they got scared of potential negative publicity, and rejected the submission.

Instead, I decided to submit a new post. It was accepted.
Please see this post from Rob of Mississauga, that I wrote.

If you'll recall, in my original post, my hope was that the new Foreign Exchange Wash Service, that TD announced in mid-Dec 2013, would apply to US Dividends.

Bottom line:
- Bad news. Cash Dividends. The new 'Foreign Exchange Wash Service' does not apply.
USD dividends that are paid as cash are still subject to currency conversion fees.
- DRIP. The only way to avoid currency conversion fees is if you enroll each of your US dividend stocks in the DRIP program (1-800-465-5463).
So, if you like to DRIP, good news for you. (Note: Market DRIP only. Treasury DRIP is not eligible.)

 

[My Own Advisor]

Your question about an update is timely....I got this in my inbox today:

Here is Stephanie Mahony's reply:

Hi Mark,

Thanks so much for reaching out and I'm sorry to hear of your frustration. I would like the opportunity to connect you with a Senior Manager who can discuss your concerns in more detail. At your earliest convenience, please send me an email at stephanie.mahony@td.com with the time and best number to reach you.

Thanks again and I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Sincerely,

Stephanie Mahony

TD Helps Team

I gave Stephanie my contact information and she forwarded that to a Senior Manager at TD. I'm waiting for my call. If I don't get one by early next week, I will email Stephanie back.

@Avrex, it's possible they saw you were a blogger and didn't reply, but even more reason they should actually. I would have, in a management role at TD Bank, but hard to predict why people do what they do....

This was my email:

Hello,

I know that TDDI does not have a US $$ component to their RRSP plan; however, when will this be available??

I hold US Stocks in my TDDI RRSP account. These US companies pay out their dividends in US dollars (USD). My TDDI RRSP has long been enrolled in the original auto washing program and it is my expectation is that these dividends should have been autowashed and deposited directly as USD into my TD US Money Market Fund (TDB166) when DRIPping US investments has not been set up.

This is not occurring.....

On top of that....there appears to be a "double dip" foreign exchange conversion on US investments when they are set up for DRIPs. US Dollar dividends are converted to Canadian dollars at a rate higher than the spot rate. With my synthetic DRIP, it seems the Canadian dollar dividends are again converted to US Dollars. In effect, because I am DRIPping some of my US investments I'm paying as much as 3% or more in foreign currency conversion charges.

I understand that TDDI is working on a long-term solution to provide clients with a 'pure' USD $$$ RRSP, similar to their competitors, which TDDI is lagging WAY BEHIND by the way but the timelines on this account keep changing.

I've heard that this is an issue with technology and the implementation of a new platform that will require some time (last estimate is Dec 2014).

I'm willing to be patient for these changes but not much longer.

A number of other passionate investors on Canadian Money Forum who hold TDDI accounts are thinking of jumping from TDDI, some have already left TDDI, and I might do the same.

In fact, a prominent blogger has posted articles about your lack of USD $$$ RRSP to raise the awareness to investors, and has recently jumped from TDDI for that reason:

http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/td-direct-invest.../

http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/why-i-moved-to-b.../

Please provide feedback on how I can keep my USD dividends as USD to minimize currency conversion fees.

I want to hear from you, including a firm deadline on when USD $$$ RRSPs will be implemented.

Mark

Keep the thread alive and I will keep you posted.....

 

[GoldStone]

Bottom line:
- Bad news. Cash Dividends. The new 'Foreign Exchange Wash Service' does not apply.
USD dividends that are paid as cash are still subject to currency conversion fees.
- DRIP. The only way to avoid currency conversion fees is if you enroll each of your US dividend stocks in the DRIP program (1-800-465-5463).
So, if you like to DRIP, good news for you. (Note: Market DRIP only. Treasury DRIP is not eligible.)

I was thinking why market DRIPs are eligible while treasury DRIPs are not. Call me cynical, but here's one possible explanation.

TDDI does not control the DRIP price of the treasury DRIPs; the company does. To eliminate forex fees associated with the treasury DRIPs, TDDI has to give up some revenue. Not so with market DRIPs. TDDI can easily add a mark-up. Buy the shares in the market at one price, then turn around and DRIP them at a slightly higher price. Voila, their revenue stream is intact.

This is just a wild speculation on my part. I have no proof they do this.