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Like AltaRed, the lost interest on my chequing account balance means nothing to me. I like to keep it above $5,000 just in case something unexpected comes up. For me that's just "walking around money".
 

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This is the kind thing that makes it more difficult for low income people to maintain any stability especially those who just lost their jobs during the pandemic.
Often when I suggest to people to just ditch their Big Bank and go to online only, I'm told they need the benefits of:

1. Being able to get bank drafts at a branch
2. Getting high rewards credit cards with the annual fee waved
3. Getting a safety deposit box

These don't seem to be benefits that a low income person needs. So why don't they just pack up and go to a bank that serves them better?
 

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Often when I suggest to people to just ditch their Big Bank and go to online only, I'm told they need the benefits of:

1. Being able to get bank drafts at a branch
2. Getting high rewards credit cards with the annual fee waved
3. Getting a safety deposit box

These don't seem to be benefits that a low income person needs. So why don't they just pack up and go to a bank that serves them better?
Unfortunately, low income customers do use bank drafts frequently. If they fall behind in rent, or other payments, they are often required to provide “guaranteed” payment to make up the shortfall.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
...So why don't they just pack up and go to a bank that serves them better?
Easier said than done when all the major banks do the same thing. When ING Direct came to Canada, I thought I'd ditch my Canada Trust account once and for all. But that wasn't possible because ING required you to link to an external bank.

I've never been in such a situation where I had to live in poverty so I wouldn't know exactly what kind of hoops all the institutions make them do. I wouldn't be surprised if low income people are manipulated so that they have no choice but to use resources the rest of us think as wasteful.

It's like being charged $1.00 for paper statements when on-line statements are free. Of course I can print my own statements. But that means the cost of paper has been shifted from the institution to the individual.

Secondly, to go online banking requires internet access. There's a reason internet access is sometimes an election issue. It could be unaffordable for some people. And mobile data costs so much more. I'd be highly critical of someone of low income with the latest smartphone and a 2-yr mobile data plan and then complain he can't afford the basic necessities. Nowadays, being online IS a necessity.
 

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Easier said than done when all the major banks do the same thing. When ING Direct came to Canada, I thought I'd ditch my Canada Trust account once and for all. But that wasn't possible because ING required you to link to an external bank.

I've never been in such a situation where I had to live in poverty so I wouldn't know exactly what kind of hoops all the institutions make them do. I wouldn't be surprised if low income people are manipulated so that they have no choice but to use resources the rest of us think as wasteful.

It's like being charged $1.00 for paper statements when on-line statements are free. Of course I can print my own statements. But that means the cost of paper has been shifted from the institution to the individual.

Secondly, to go online banking requires internet access. There's a reason internet access is sometimes an election issue. It could be unaffordable for some people. And mobile data costs so much more. I'd be highly critical of someone of low income with the latest smartphone and a 2-yr mobile data plan and then complain he can't afford the basic necessities. Nowadays, being online IS a necessity.
Also free wifi shut down during the pandemic.
You can't just sit at a mall, tim hortons, library, community center, YMCA etc

I don't like having so much tied to an online identity.
I'd be even more leery if I was changing physical addresses, so my whole financial life was tied to my cell phone, or a few passwords on my computer.
 

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I realize there are quite a bit of complaints about td direct investing but i'm happy with them and keep an account there partially for that reason.
 

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Grandfathered into the CIBC plus 55 no fee cheque accounts. They just stopped charging for interac money transfers. The only fee we pay them now is for a safety deposit box. We also have a 60 plus account at Scotiabank. Balance at CIBC is usually less than $500, any more we move to their crummy on line savings account that pays the princely sum of .5 percent.
 

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Easier said than done when all the major banks do the same thing. When ING Direct came to Canada, I thought I'd ditch my Canada Trust account once and for all. But that wasn't possible because ING required you to link to an external bank.
Not sure the problem as I opened a Presidents Choice account to link to the ING Direct one (now Simplli Financial and Tangerine).

I could have ditched the CT account but as TD bank bought it out and I was opening a brokerage account, it made more sense to keep it to make it easier to flow money in/out of the brokerage.


... It's like being charged $1.00 for paper statements when on-line statements are free. Of course I can print my own statements. But that means the cost of paper has been shifted from the institution to the individual ...
Sure but having received paper statements for years, that seems a more recent change.


...Secondly, to go online banking requires internet access.
While I find online more convenient, I have used the phone for years without issues. More recently, it has been great for when the online banking is down. :oops:


Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Not sure the problem as I opened a Presidents Choice account to link to the ING Direct one (now Simplli Financial and Tangerine).
My reference were in the days before PC Financial existed. Now I have both.

Sure but having received paper statements for years, that seems a more recent change.
When I received our first Canada Trust Mastercard statement over 30 years ago, I immediately cancelled and stopped using it after seeing the $1.00 statement fee.

RBC charges a $1 monthly statement fee but electronic statements are free.

And then there's the minimum balance as this thread describes. It's a manipulation to make you do what the institutions want you to do for their benefit. We either top up accounts with dead money or we close accounts and consolidate the money.

I listed that as an example how our behaviours are manipulated in response how low-income people may also be manipulated and stuck in behaviour they can't get out of.


While I find online more convenient, I have used the phone for years without issues. More recently, it has been great for when the online banking is down. :oops:


Cheers
For most of us who don't have money problems, these just seem to be annoyances that we can live with. My post from which you replied had a lot to do with low-income people.
 

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My reference were in the days before PC Financial existed. Now I have both.
Or maybe you weren't aware of PCF?

I recalled them being available at pretty much the same time. The references I can find say PCF started in '96 while ING Direct started in '97.


... For most of us who don't have money problems, these just seem to be annoyances that we can live with. My post from which you replied had a lot to do with low-income people.
I will have to ask my friend how long he has had his PCF account. He does not have internet access at home and for a long time, a good year is one where he earned six thousand in the year.


Cheers
 

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I am with TD and for me the min balance of 5k has been in place since 2015 i believe. But since I have met the 5k min I do not have any monthly account fee. I dont have a monthly fee for my TD visa infinite either. Also, I got 100 cheques for free because of the money in my account. I had a lot more than 5k during these years so maybe that brought more benefits. Now I am more into investing and also saving up money for a condo/house so that is why I have a bunch of money in the bank.

As far as the commend goes about people with low income getting screwed over I am not sure what to say. I am sure that it is mostly about banks wanting to maintain their margins and passing the cost onto their users.
 

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Not my experience as my TD bank account had a $2K minimum up until the letter arrived in the summer saying that it was be being dropped. A list of other accounts with higher minimums were provided.


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...When I received our first Canada Trust Mastercard statement over 30 years ago, I immediately cancelled and stopped using it after seeing the $1.00 statement fee.
I can't help but think that you are shifting the timeline somewhat.

I don't recall there being online options available in the '90's, with lots of competitors providing paper statements for CCs as well as bank statements for free.

The money saving CT bank statement option I can recall at that time was inserting one's bank book into the ATM to have the ATM update it instead of going to a teller.


Cheers
 

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Unfortunately, low income customers do use bank drafts frequently. If they fall behind in rent, or other payments, they are often required to provide “guaranteed” payment to make up the shortfall.
Both Simplii and Tangerine provide bank drafts ... timing and potentially extra expenses I'd think would be the bigger issue.

But then again, where the low income person has online access, as long as they stick to $3K and under a day, I suspect that land lords etc. may be likely to be just as happy to receive the free Interac eTransfer funds.


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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
Good news. I wrote to TD using through my online bank account secure messages service.

"In regards to the monthly minimum balance for your TD Preferred Chequing account, I'm able to let you know that some account changes have been considered; however, these discussions have been paused for the time being. Rest assured, the bank will notify you in advance of any such changes to your account profile."

I certainly can top up my balance to meet the $5000 but for those low income people who can't, they'll be forced to close it and look of another bank. Either that or pay services charges that puts them in deeper financial stress.

Eventhough this just postpones what is the inevitable, there will come a time during my retirement that I just can't afford to have dead money sitting around just to service bank accounts I may no longer use.
 

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Good news. I wrote to TD using through my online bank account secure messages service.

"In regards to the monthly minimum balance for your TD Preferred Chequing account, I'm able to let you know that some account changes have been considered; however, these discussions have been paused for the time being. Rest assured, the bank will notify you in advance of any such changes to your account profile."

I certainly can top up my balance to meet the $5000 but for those low income people who can't, they'll be forced to close it and look of another bank. Either that or pay services charges that puts them in deeper financial stress.

Eventhough this just postpones what is the inevitable, there will come a time during my retirement that I just can't afford to have dead money sitting around just to service bank accounts I may no longer use.
There are low cost options available at all the major banks (as mandated by the FCAC). Other free options are available at the digital banks.
 

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... I certainly can top up my balance to meet the $5000 but for those low income people who can't, they'll be forced to close it and look of another bank.
Mine needs $3K for the service fee to be rebated so I suspect a low income person will go with the lower account first.


... Either that or pay services charges that puts them in deeper financial stress.
Depends ... if it's a few transactions a month, $108 a year is probably a lot easier to come up with than $3K or $5K.


.. Even though this just postpones what is the inevitable, there will come a time during my retirement that I just can't afford to have dead money sitting around just to service bank accounts I may no longer use.
Low income types age 60 who are receiving GIC can apply to have their fees waived on certain accounts.

You've said you have a Simplii as well as Tangerine accounts so I'm curious as to why you can afford dead money now.


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To me, most of the things at TD are want to have, rather than need to have. For example, I like being able to go in and get US money (i've even got change on occasion) and the fact that there are a lot of bank machines, but I don't need it. I have tangerine too and i feel it would suit most people. The credit card is really quite good for a free card and you can even have a US bank account.
 

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FU Canada Trust!

I have a Preferred Chequing account too. I opened it in 1983. And they keep changing the terms, trying to get you to abandon it.

On July 1 2021 the minimum is going up from $2000 a month to $5000 a month! That makes it without a doubt the WORST account to possibly hold with any bank anywhere.

I mean, why don't they just close it on us? Why keep changing the term until is it impossible to have?

Bastrds!
 

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FU Canada Trust!

I have a Preferred Chequing account too. I opened it in 1983. And they keep changing the terms, trying to get you to abandon it.

On July 1 2021 the minimum is going up from $2000 a month to $5000 a month! That makes it without a doubt the WORST account to possibly hold with any bank anywhere.

I mean, why don't they just close it on us? Why keep changing the term until is it impossible to have?

Bastrds!
Can you post the notice or link?
 
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