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i am wondering where these cocky brats with 2 puny years market experience are coming from. We're commencing the 4th year of a powerful bull market. A rising tide buoys all boats. The brats have never known anything different. They've never even lived through a market collapse. In just 30 short months, they've convinced themselves that they are wunderkind. They are invincible.
I'm not sure if I'm being lumped in this group or not, but since I'm 27 and have expressed interest in managing money I imagine I'm included in that group. I was working on a bond trading desk when Bear Sterns collapsed. I know what market collapse feels like. I can't speak for the others but I think it is unfair to assume that we only know the good times.
 

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it looks to me like a guy thing. Sometimes young males get so hopelessly cocky. This bull market appears to have spawned some. Being enraged at & jealous of active wealth managers, as we see above, is a telltale symptom.

fortunately there are also some in this forum, like cannadian & dmoney, who know better. Who are carefully preparing themselves for the big portfolio wars out there in the real world by suiting up armour, one piece at a time, like samurai warriors.

i for one doubt anyone will ever find ambitious young women portfolio managers trying to go it as amateurs with no preparation.

you won't find women refusing to take advanced courses, refusing to earn appropriate qualifications, refusing to work long-drawn-out internships with successful wealth managers. You'll never find women insisting they can hit up canadians for fees just because, hey, they think they're worth it.
 

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Who wouldn't want to be a money manager? I know quite a few and they really seem to have nice lives. Every one of these started as a junior analyst at a fairly big company. Most started at a bank. Experience and track record managing OPM as well as extensive contracts in the business are absolutely critical. Having a friend with good marketting skills? I wouldn't count on that for much. Having said that, stanger things have happened. I say go for it but do it in a way that has some chance of success. Starting from scratch has virtually no chance of success.
Also, by bringing your aspirations to a forum like this, no matter how well intentioned most people here are, is going to cause divergent responses of "go for it boy" or alternatively "you don't have a realistic plan" from the experienced guys. Asking for just the technical steps is still inviting opinions. That is why these types of forums are fun, they allow people to express themselves rather than just give technical answers. Anyway, I wouldn't give up my day job (I am assuming you have one) unless you find a new one at an established money manager.
 

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On the flip side (and uh, I'm not sure how advisable this post is going to be from me), what I see too often in women (in my opinion) is overhesitation. As in - women probably "intern" and think, "oh, I should get another designation before I'm ready to really go out on my own" when they are likely totally ready, just lacking confidence -- I personally see this all the time in all fields, not just money management. Women probably over-intern while men may under-intern.

(Example not from finance: women I know will talk about wanting a professional designation, then will describe the absolute longest, slowest path to getting there. "Oh, I'll go part-time, and I should probably get this certification first to really prepare," etc. Total anecdata but there you go.)
 

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On the flip side (and uh, I'm not sure how advisable this post is going to be from me), what I see too often in women (in my opinion) is overhesitation. As in - women probably "intern" and think, "oh, I should get another designation before I'm ready to really go out on my own" when they are likely totally ready, just lacking confidence -- I personally see this all the time in all fields, not just money management. Women probably over-intern while men may under-intern.

(Example not from finance: women I know will talk about wanting a professional designation, then will describe the absolute longest, slowest path to getting there. "Oh, I'll go part-time, and I should probably get this certification first to really prepare," etc. Total anecdata but there you go.)

so interesting to hear it put this way.

things will change, change is gradual.

it's for our daughters, too.
 

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Portfolio Manager
(From The Insiders Guide to the Best Jobs on Bay Street by Joe Kan. Copyright John Wiley & Sons; 1 edition. Used by arrangement with John Wiley & Sons, Inc.)

The portfolio management (or investment management) function is a straightforward one: To invest other peoples money profitably. As well, it is expected that the portfolio outperform either some benchmark index (e.g., S&P Composite, S&P 500, etc.) that reflects the portfolio's mandate or peer group of competitor funds with a similar focus and investment objective. The money that is handed over to a fund manager to invest is typically invested in financial assets (stocks and bonds). How a fund manager then goes about building a diversified portfolio depends on a number of factors, including: the portfolio policy statement and the investment philosophy of the manager.

The portfolio manager job is also considered a second-generation or sometimes third-generation job. Nobody comes straight out of MBA school and lands a role as a professional money manager at an established and respected institution right away. The most common paths to the portfolio manager job are:

1. Start out on the buy-side as an analyst with coverage responsibilities of 30 to 50 companies across three or four industries. After a few years, get promoted to a co-manager role on a larger fund or assume portfolio management responsibilities on a smaller fund.
2. Start out as an equity research associate on the sell-side. After three years or so, get promoted to a (sell-side) analyst role with primary coverage responsibilities. Then, after demonstrating your analytical and stock-picking abilities to the Street, move to the buy-side as a senior buy-side analyst or money manager.
3. Start out as an equity research associate on the sell-side. After three years or so, move over to the buy-side as an analyst providing research and analytical support to the portfolio manager(s). After a few years (typically three to five, although the timing is less defined than it is for a research associate on the sell-side), get promoted to assistant portfolio manager on a larger fund or take on portfolio management responsibilities on a smaller fund.

Those interested in the portfolio manager function should also consider the venture capitalist role. Although both the portfolio manager and venture capitalist manage a portfolio of securities, the primary difference is that the VC deals with early-stage private companies, whereas the PM deals primarily with public companies. That difference aside, the similarities are many:

a. Both have the challenge of sifting through a lot of information to find a few good investment ideas.
b. Both are trying to earn a consistently superior rate of return of their portfolios.
c. Compensation for both tends to be tied to bottom-line performance of their funds.
 

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Hmmm. I wonder how I could gauge how much testosterone I have? I'm a woman working in a male-dominated field. I probably have more testosterone (if that's the deciding factor!) than the "average" woman. Someone at work the other day called me a "freak of nature" because "you're the only woman I've ever met who understands structured products" (I told him he needs to expand his social circle).
 

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Good posts MG. I think you laid out a very good case for it being very difficult to start as a PM from scratch.
I know quite a few woman who understand structered products. I would agree that they are a pretty small minority though.
 

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(I should emphasize that I cut and pasted that penultimate post from the source given at the top of the post)

I wanted to provide a sense of the "typical" career path to ICPM.
 

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what I see too often in women (in my opinion) is overhesitation. As in - women probably "intern" and think, "oh, I should get another designation before I'm ready to really go out on my own" when they are likely totally ready, just lacking confidence -- I personally see this all the time in all fields, not just money management. Women probably over-intern while men may under-intern.
So true, but I agree that things are changing slowly but surely!

Nothing wrong having goals, being ambitious & wanting to succeed, BUT most times there are NO short-cuts in life without consequence.

Imagine being operated by someone without MUCH experience [there is a reason why residency training = several years {in many fields}].
 

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As with so many things, something that looks simple from afar is devilish in its detail.
I left an institutional fund manager a few years ago to start my own investment management firm.
Even with a great concept – global tactical portfolios using ETFs – it’s been a long, hard road.
As for doing it on the side while you work another, unrelated job - good luck to you.

What you will find is that making the investment decisions is fairly straightforward.
It’s the business of actually managing the money that is time-consuming and costly: large capital requirements; lots of regulations and audits; lots of paperwork; dealing with custodians; providing regular performance reporting; managing positions across scores of accounts; meeting and pitching prospective clients. The list goes on but I think you get my point.

All this will cost money and require staff.

The first thing to do would be to get familiar with the regulations as provided by your provincial regulator. Here’s a link for the Ontario Securities Commission.
http://www.osc.gov.on.ca/en/SecuritiesLaw_irps_index.htm

I don’t mean to discourage you but it does help to know what you are wishing for. Of course, the rewards are significant if you can make a success of it.

BTW – I will be speaking at the World Alternative Investment Summit in Niagara Falls tomorrow if anyone as a chance to visit. Here’s a link.
http://www.waisc.com/

And I will be on BNN Market Call Thursday afternoon with Michael Hainsworth. If you have ETF questions, that’s the time to call in.

All the best,
Vikash
www.archerETF.com
 

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Discussion Starter #54
Thanks for your insight, Vikash! To clarify, I would be starting up the company on the side, with our own capital and not taking clients yet. Like a holding company. Would you say that a partnership structure or corporate structure would work better in this case? Perhaps initially a partnership that can incorporate later. If and when I want to do this full time then I will obviously commit all my time to it.
 

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As long as its only your own money, no problem. I'm not qualified to give advice on your corporate structure. If it is just you and a friend, then maybe a joint bank account with a joint trading account would do the trick. As soon as you starting taking other people's money though, all the regulatory stuff will kick in.
 

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This is my take-away from all these posts, thanks.

I must say, this thread is filled with what I perceive to be an annoying trait shared amongst Canadians. The tendency to be Debbie Downers and Finger Wagging Paternal Figures, "no-you-can't-do-that", etc. As a Canadian I do this sometimes as well. But the American in me is winning over in this case.. let's just cut through all the red tape and do this. A good plan today is better than an excellent plan tomorrow. If you succeed, great, if you fail you learn something from it.

Another avenue might be to forget other people's money, initially, and just be financed. I have great credit and am pre-approved for business loans and all that.
Don't let these people get you down, most people are conservative in their investment strategy and don't know anything apart from buy and hold. Unless you have balls to take a chance, you'll just be wishing instead of having. If you have a good track record with a good percentage return on your investments. Go for the gold, start early and even if you don't get alot of clients early on, they will eventually be won over by your returns that you've made for yourself at least. Then when you start managing other people's money successfully then come the referrals and then come the big money.

This is something you can do in addition to your other job as well until it steamrolls into something big.

I am starting my own S Corporation based out of delaware.
 

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The young crowd around here doesn't seem to understand that the kind (and unwanted as OP stated) advice given wasn't not to do it, but to do it the right way.

In just about any business it is beneficial to work for someone first to get experience and learn the ebs and flow of the profession, the business, and get the connections. No magic wand.
 

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Don't let these people get you down, most people are conservative in their investment strategy and don't know anything apart from buy and hold. Unless you have balls to take a chance, you'll just be wishing instead of having ...
This is something you can do in addition to your other job as well until it steamrolls into something big.

I am starting my own S Corporation based out of delaware.
Problem is that the people most likely to place their money with a manager are likely also likely going to be asking for credentials and experience in addition to past record. In other words, they are going to be conservative.

If one can start on their own and grow into something big - that's great.

But like my sister-in-law who thought hanging a sign outside her hair dressing salon would result in a steady stream of customers, there may be a lot of time, effort and sweat required to achieve this.


Cheers
 

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Usually it's a group of people who get together to discuss to discuss investing (something like this board). Some take it a step forward and "pool" their money to buy investments (usually on a regular basis).
 
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