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In general, does it make sense that all the world governments, the New England Journal of Medicine and other reputable journals, and the vast majority of doctors and public health agencies would be lying to us for some nefarious reason? World governments especially will make more money if the economy is open and covid is gone - more income for them from taxes if business is running and people are working, and less expense on healthcare.

On the other hand, does it make sense that some obscure websites and YouTubers would be lying to us in order to get more views/clicks through to their sites in order to make money?

If the vaccine was really more dangerous than covid, the governments would not be pushing the vaccine. They have no incentive to do so. You could argue pharma lobbying, but the rest of the businesses also lobby and they are MUCH larger than just the pharma industry.
Well the data suggests that the risk of of the disease for some people is extremely low.
We're not clear on the long term risk of the vaccine. (I believe it is low)

But if you have an extremely low risk and an unknown risk of vaccine, it might be logical to skip the vaccine for now.
Suggesting this is enough to get banned for "disinformation" if you're talking about COVID19 on some platforms.

However there are many vaccines that we dont' get, because the risk isn't very high.
For example TB isn't normally administered in my area, and most people only get the Hepatitus vaccines if they're travelling.

I think it is a completely logical position that in some cases it doesn't make sense to get vaccinated.


Now why would the government and powerful companies be pushing to suppress this information?
Because they want herd immunity and to end the pandemic, that's a good goal.
However I don't think actively blocking legitmate criticism is appropriate.

I think almost everyone should get a COVID19 vaccine, and I think a properly informed person would make the same determination. That being said, sometimes, even with the right information, people make bad decisions.
 

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So you want everyone to get C19 in order to vaccinate themselves instead of getting vaccinated? You conveniently left out that 75% of unvaccinated people without C19 history were infected during this outbreak.

Personally, I would rather get vaccinated than get C19. If C19 infection is now your recommended protection against C19 that's a little bit crazy, don't you think?
Thats your choice. And people should be free to choose, but they should be demanding INFORMED choice, The rest of people should not be getting coerced by loss of basic rights and freedoms to take a (questionable) vaccine.

They are arguing that young adults and children have to get vaccinated to "protect everyone else". Despite the vaccine posing higher risk to them than covid.

The vaccines don't stop spread of covid! So why would we vaccinate young healthy people and CHILDREN. Infact the vaccine appears to be accelerating covid in Europe! Censored experts were telling us this is exactly whats going to happen.

They. Are. Lying. To. Us. <-- and they keep doubling down on the lies.

Edit- And yes, I will take natural immunity over jabs and mandatory booster jabs for the rest of my life. If we allowed early treatment of covid this would be the best solution for all but the most vulnerable population.
 

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The vaccines don't stop spread of covid! So why would we vaccinated young healthy people and CHILDREN. Infact the vaccine appears to be accelerating covid in Europe!
Sounds like you believe that 5G is spreading the virus because locations that are slated to have 5G towers are locations where you have the highest numbers of covid infections, omitting the fact that both are due to population density.

Here's the thing: correlation is not causation, which is what conspiracy theorists don't seem to understand. Yet they want to make the linkage. The delta variant is accelerating the infection rate, while countries are trying to speed up their vaccination rate due to the increased infection numbers.
 

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Sounds like you believe that 5G is spreading the virus because locations that are slated to have 5G towers are locations where you have the highest numbers of covid infections, omitting the fact that both are due to population density.

Here's the thing: correlation is not causation, which is what conspiracy theorists don't seem to understand. Yet they want to make the linkage. The delta variant is accelerating the infection rate, while countries are trying to speed up their vaccination rate due to the increased infection numbers.
Ah yes smears. The hail mary attempts of a dead argument.

The data is undeniable at this point, at the very least enough to PAUSE the campaign. Herd immunity is a bust via vaccination (this was a lie too), so theres no reason to not be able to stop or pause. But they won't stop, will they?

The fact that UK and Israel decided to start censoring the data as vaccinated data starting fairing worse than unvaccinated should be a warning sign to any rational person.
 

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Listen, the vaccine question is quite simple. Vaccinate or get infected. Those are the choices. The India situation is quite telling to our future, in my opinion. I think they are talking about 2/3rds of the country with antibodies right now. That means that the delta variant went through that country like a wild fire during a wind gust. Since many Indian's must have obtained their infection outdoors, the death rate was obviously reduced significantly (although way too many died).

Now our country is not as tightly packed with people as India. Probably more the most opposite but hopefully we are packed enough to allow this virus to inoculate our unvaccinated as safely as possible and quickly. There will certainly be quite a few exceptions, that will be sent quickly to our hospitals, but for many more I hope they can get their immunization without as much sickness and death to go with it.

Obviously vaccination is safer but I doubt mentioning that another time is going to get them to roll up their sleeves, so infection is the route they will be going. If they manage to avoid infection until this fall, the probability of a much more scarier outcome increases dramatically, when we all go back indoors and allow this nasty variant to concentrate. That is when it gets ugly.
 

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^ Responding to post #3,362:
Edit- And yes, I will take natural immunity over jabs and mandatory booster jabs for the rest of my life. If we allowed early treatment of covid this would be the best solution for all but the most vulnerable population.
... since when were the jabs (vaccine) mandatory? and why would you need "booster" jabs? Also, why the need for early "treatment" for anyways? Never mind about your "best solution for all" and "but the most vulnerable population"? Why waste time, efforts and money with your "best (natural) solution" of status quo.

Ever thought about being the first human to live on planet Mars? No.one.there.can.ever.lie.to.you.there.
 

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Ah yes smears. The hail mary attempts of a dead argument.

The data is undeniable at this point, at the very least enough to PAUSE the campaign. Herd immunity is a bust via vaccination (this was a lie too), so theres no reason to not be able to stop or pause. But they won't stop, will they?

The fact that UK and Israel decided to start censoring the data as vaccinated data starting fairing worse than unvaccinated should be a warning sign to any rational person.
... if a conspiracist says so.
 

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Listen, the vaccine question is quite simple. Vaccinate or get infected. Those are the choices. The India situation is quite telling to our future, in my opinion. I think they are talking about 2/3rds of the country with antibodies right now. That means that the delta variant went through that country like a wild fire during a wind gust. Since many Indian's must have obtained their infection outdoors, the death rate was obviously reduced significantly (although way too many died).

Now our country is not as tightly packed with people as India. Probably more the most opposite but hopefully we are packed enough to allow this virus to inoculate our unvaccinated as safely as possible and quickly. There will certainly be quite a few exceptions, that will be sent quickly to our hospitals, but for many more I hope they can get their immunization without as much sickness and death to go with it.

Obviously vaccination is safer but I doubt mentioning that another time is going to get them to roll up their sleeves, so infection is the route they will be going. If they manage to avoid infection until this fall, the probability of a much more scarier outcome increases dramatically, when we all go back indoors and allow this nasty variant to concentrate. That is when it gets ugly.
Ok. But why are they still coercing previously infected to get vaccinated for example? Despite growing evidence that may be more harmful than good.

Why do they want a needle in every arm, and a vaccine passport system?

Get vaccinated or don't I agree. But why all the threats to freedoms for those who don't?

And Beaver, Trudeau ordered booster shots thru 2024, clearly they have no interest in ending this. So I'm really not sure what your trying to say.
 

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^ So what Trudeau is ordering shots to 2024, or to perpetuity. The vaccine is "voluntary". You as with everyone else on this planet take your chance with getting Covid or not.
 

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^ So what Trudeau is ordering shots to 2024, or to perpetuity. The vaccine is "voluntary". You as with everyone else on this planet take your chance with getting Covid or not.
No point in discussing this with you. Loss of career and income, travel freedoms, ability to dine out etc is hardly "voluntary". Not to mention illegal.
 

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Ah yes smears. The hail mary attempts of a dead argument.

The data is undeniable at this point, at the very least enough to PAUSE the campaign. Herd immunity is a bust via vaccination (this was a lie too), so theres no reason to not be able to stop or pause. But they won't stop, will they?

The fact that UK and Israel decided to start censoring the data as vaccinated data starting fairing worse than unvaccinated should be a warning sign to any rational person.
Smears? It's just fact. You're looking at two independent issues: rising covid infections and rising vaccination rate, but you think they're correlated. The only probable correlation is that the governments are pushing increased vaccination efforts in response to rising infections. Otherwise, the increased vaccination rates is due to the increased availability of vaccines.

Only conspiracy theorists think that they are correlated because they can't believe that things can't happen independently, and it fits their world view.

I note that you NEVER try to address what I say, instead you pull up irrelevant misquotes and out of context information.
 

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No point in discussing this with you. Loss of career and income, travel freedoms, ability to dine out etc is hardly "voluntary". Not to mention illegal.
... I wouldn't disagree with "further discussing" things with a "conspiracist" too.

So what's so "illegal (other than in your head)" about all that stuffs that you listed when all are voluntary.

No one can force you to work, whether you earn an income or not, no one gives a sh1t. You can still get out of your basement to go to the park or get pizza. If your local pizza ain't good enough, you can still cross the border (at your own dime of course) and stuff yourself with chicken wings.
 

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Smears? It's just fact. You're looking at two independent issues: rising covid infections and rising vaccination rate, but you think they're correlated. The only probable correlation is that the governments are pushing increased vaccination efforts in response to rising infections. Otherwise, the increased vaccination rates is due to the increased availability of vaccines.

Only conspiracy theorists think that they are correlated because they can't believe that things can't happen independently, and it fits their world view.

I note that you NEVER try to address what I say, instead you pull up irrelevant misquotes and out of context information.
The serious mental gymnastics here and denial of reality would take me too long to unravel.

Its funny because I had noticed your quite at good at misdirecting and deflecting yourself.

Anything you ask or say, that I may not respond to, is generally because its not relevant to the point, or often a deflection.

I love how people who question the narrative, dig deeper, try to confirm things, find the evidence, expose lies, and do some critical thinking are "conspiracy theorists".

What do we call people who blindly follow the narrative and parrot everything they're told? No matter how many times its proven wrong? Or how many times the narrative shifts the goal posts?

Its just to flatten the curve.

Its just a mask.

Its just until the vaccine is available

Its just until the elderly are vaccinated

Its just until the cases drop

Its just until everybody is vaccinated

Its just an app for your safety

Its just a social credit score
 

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The serious mental gymnastics here and denial of reality would take me too long to unravel.

Its funny because I had noticed your quite at good at misdirecting and deflecting yourself.

Anything you ask or say, that I may not respond to, is generally because its not relevant to the point, or often a deflection.

I love how people who question the narrative, dig deeper, try to confirm things, find the evidence, expose lies, and do some critical thinking are "conspiracy theorists".

What do we call people who blindly follow the narrative and parrot everything they're told? No matter how many times its proven wrong? Or how many times the narrative shifts the goal posts?

Its just to flatten the curve.

Its just a mask.

Its just until the vaccine is available

Its just until the elderly are vaccinated

Its just until the cases drop

Its just until everybody is vaccinated

Its just an app for your safety

Its just a social credit score
I'm sorry, you have a point here? The thing is that you aren't doing critical thinking, you're doing exactly what conspiracy theorists do. You put out your "theory" and then any time someone contradicts you, you ad hominem attack saying that "you're all part of the corrupt system", or you're sheep. You can't put a concrete argument together. You just spit out and repeat what other people say, and it shows that you have a weak understanding of what they say when the "evidence" you present actually contradicts your points.
 

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There is no logical reason not to wear a mask, except perhaps for the "it is suffocating my brain and causing my mentals to die" point.........o_O
 

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I wonder if the poster got training from the leader of the pack-lonewolf?
I figure as much. He's worth the same effort to respond, but I figure it's pretty dangerous to have people spouting out stuff that they have no clue about and passing it off as information.

At least everyone knows not to take lonewolf seriously.
 

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^ So what Trudeau is ordering shots to 2024, or to perpetuity. The vaccine is "voluntary". You as with everyone else on this planet take your chance with getting Covid or not.
July 20 (Reuters) - Two-thirds of India's population have antibodies against the coronavirus, according to data released on Tuesday from a survey of 29,000 people across the nation conducted in June and July.
418000 Indian death with population of 1 366 000 000
it is like Canada would had 12 000 dead, Canada had 26 000
It looks like a danger from covid is exaggerated.
 
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