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He was a nice guy, a real community leader and well liked by everyone. Then one day they found 17 bodies in a freezer in his basement.

You can't tell a book by the cover or what people are like by what they say or how they appear. Better to judge them on what they did.

In the tragic tale of residential schools......the government and the churches have much blame to share.
 

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Also, how many kids died at the same time while being with their tribes ? How does this number compare with residential schools?
For Tuberculosis deaths, during the 1930s and 1940's being at a residential school meant a death rate that is reported to have been something over 11 times higher than being at home on the reserve.

Cheers
 

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... What follows starting in the next paragraph was written recently by someone else. That individual and I are maybe the only two in Canada who share the same thinking. A cry in the wilderness. I expect some expressions of contempt, but I care not. I no longer feel the need to please anyone. I accept that AltaRed represents the overwhelming majority, who wish for us to devote endless resources and long years "to peel back all the layers of this onion". And all the onions still in the root cellar.

Because 215 children’s graves were found at the Kamloops Residential School DOES NOT constitute genocide. Moreover, it may not indicate much of anything! Of course, the Residential Schools were ill-conceived, seemingly poorly run and maybe even criminally negligent and cruel at times. But 215 children’s deaths over the 88 years of the Kamloops operation with as many as 500 kids in residence at a time when the First Nations were suffering greatly from Tuberculosis is likely close to the normal mortality rate for those unfortunate times ...
So it doesn't bother you that Tuberculosis deaths are reported to have been something like eleven times higher in residential schools than amongst the rest of First Nations?

Interesting that you are quoting a recent author who is arguing it was likely normal.

Dr. Peter Bryce, the the Chief Medical Officer of the federal Departments of the Interior and Indian Affairs wrote in 1907 that residential school residents were deprived of adequate medical attention and sanitary living conditions. His suppressed report, when eventually published in 1922 was named "The Story of a National Crime: Being a Record of the Health Conditions of the Indians of Canada from 1904 to 1921".

Call me part of the majority if you want but I'm thinking Dr. Bryce had more first hand info than this recent author.


... Put another way: I do not blame a young German for Hitler. How can anyone? My father was so shot up in the second world war that he had a 100% disability pension. Our family lives were made very difficult as a result of his war injuries.
I'd think more than your father would have to be impacted to make a better comparison.

There wasn't just the residential schools but I will leave it here.


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At the risk of sounding insensitive, what is the end game with respect to Residential Schools? Is it simply awareness and accountability?
 

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At the risk of sounding insensitive, what is the end game with respect to Residential Schools? Is it simply awareness and accountability?
Why do you think there is an endgame?
This is political goldmine.
You have media filling out their pages with it, instead of focusing on failures, censorship bill being pushed, and corruption.
Not much coverage for example has been given to the government funneling millions of taxpayer money to the companies of their friends.
Politicians don't want people or media focusing on problems in the country, their corruption, and general lack of ethics. Media being focused on residential schools and burning churches is very comfortable situation.
 

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And leave us not forget the interned Japanese in WWII. Sure, some modest compensation was paid to some, but downright niggardly (can we say that anymore?) by modern standards. I think that matter needs to be reopened, Royal Commissions appointed and special prosecutors brought in with plenary powers to subpoena the dead.
For some reason the atrocities by Japanese government during WWll have not drawn as much attention as Nazi German.
Was the compensation paid to Chinese people and other affected?
But if you interested read up on Unit 731
 

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We can't change the past, but we can shape the future. How we treat indigenous folks today is as relevant and isn't that great.
Don’t they all get a monthly cheque and privileges under the treaty act? Which I personally think should be abolished and everyone should be treated equally nowadays.
This is what should be done.
The 1969 White Paper (formally known as the “Statement of the Government of Canada on Indian Policy, 1969”) was a Canadian government policy paper that attempted to abolish previous legal documents relating to Indigenous peoples in Canada, including the Indian Act and treaties.

It is old and it’s past. Mistreatment was applied to the people long time dead by the people long time dead. I don’t see any reason why certain people should be treated differently.
children are not responsible for the crime committed by their parents.
 

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So it doesn't bother you that Tuberculosis deaths are reported to have been something like eleven times higher in residential schools than amongst the rest of First Nations?

Interesting that you are quoting a recent author who is arguing it was likely normal.

Dr. Peter Bryce, the the Chief Medical Officer of the federal Departments of the Interior and Indian Affairs wrote in 1907 that residential school residents were deprived of adequate medical attention and sanitary living conditions. His suppressed report, when eventually published in 1922 was named "The Story of a National Crime: Being a Record of the Health Conditions of the Indians of Canada from 1904 to 1921".

Call me part of the majority if you want but I'm thinking Dr. Bryce had more first hand info than this recent author.


I'd think more than your father would have to be impacted to make a better comparison.

There wasn't just the residential schools but I will leave it here.


Cheers
I think you missed the point of the fellow I quoted by a country mile. Or a rural kilometre, or something. The focus of his comments was not TB infection and mortality rates.

And just plain silly for you to make a fatuous statement like "So it doesn't bother you...". Yes, the whole debacle is bothersome, but do we need to flog ourselves for generations to come, to strike Royal Commissions, appoint special prosecutors, set up administrative machinery, all to find ways to say we are sorry yet again and to pay compensation to those largely unaffected? I would rather see the financial and other resources directed to current issues facing the nation and the planet. Do you know the final cost of the IRSSA? Do we need now to spend those billions again, while our healthcare system and other pressing causes are underfunded?

And apparently you did not even give the matter a casual reading in your unbridled haste to express a contrarian view. I said not a word about my father. That was part of the message of the author I quoted.

Cheers
 

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At the risk of sounding insensitive, what is the end game with respect to Residential Schools? Is it simply awareness and accountability?
To take advantage of voter's irrational emotions to get elected. After all there really is nothing more that can be done. As MP indicated, finding out what people, who have been dead for a century or more, might have done many, many years ago is not going to change much going forward from today.

In my opinion, the quicker we stop calling them aboriginals and start calling them Canadians, and they stop asking for separate status, the quicker we can get rid of any racism that might still prevail. Unfortuneately, that would cost a lot of them a lot of money so I doubt they will find that very appealing.

For example, there has been a Indian drive through booth selling untaxed cigarettes, down the road from my mother's house for years. There are at least 3 cars waiting to buy smokes at all times, most of them non-aboriginal Canadians. If I opened up a booth like that, at the end of my driveway, I would be shut down before the end of the first weekend, along with an appointment to talk to a judge so as to explain my behavior.
 

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Hasn't the "let bygones be bygones" type of attitude towards the past treatment of native people been a dismal failure ?

I think the first step is for the churches to turn over the records of all the children who died there so at least we know their names.

A second step is to ensure all the reserve communities have access to the basics of life.....housing, clean water, internet services, healthcare etc.

Other steps are to encourage economic development on native lands. They occupy some of the best land in Canada for tourist and ag industries.

One step at a time.......
 

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A second step is to ensure all the reserve communities have access to the basics of life.....housing, clean water, internet services, healthcare etc.
The easiest solution to that is to do away with reserves entirely. The water coming out of my tap is clean. I have good internet access. I don't recall anyone preventing anyone from living in my neighbourhood.

At some point in time, we should start calling all people that live in Canada, Canadians and move on from this discrimination. Giving an aboriginal extra rights is just as discriminatory as excluding them from something. I just think we should stop that.

As you said, what we have done in the past has not worked all that well so perhaps we should eliminate all discrimination and see if that helps. To just let one class of person choose what they like and demand changes to what they don't like is never going to work.
 

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Let's get some facts out there -
The children were taken not voluntarily sent, like I was taught at school. Parents hid their children to try to prevent them from being taken.
The goal of taking the children was to 'Kill the Indian in child' as recommended by Grandin. If they killed the child in the process, then the issue got buried - literally. This was a form of cultural genocide
Hitler's Concentration camps were inspire by Canada's residential schools.
This was NOT hundreds of years ago, the last school closed in 1997.

Those that did survive in residential schools ended up abused, with trauma, or having the a part of them killed.
The generation impacts of the abuse has lasting impacts of future generations that cannot be understood.
Many turned to alcohol and drugs to numb the pain, as they have not been given supports or taught how to cope.
For those that weren't forcefully sterilized, many have know idea how to raise a child in a nurturing environment, this continues the cycle.
There are still parents/grandparents, families that are alive today that do not have confirmation of what has happened to their loved ones.

This was some of the information I learned since the first discovery. I had no idea because I was not taught the depth of the residential schools, other than these were the schools that Indian families sent their kids so they can learn to adjust.

Maybe instead of asking them to once again just be Canadian aka assimilate, maybe think why would Indigenous people not want to identify as Canadians. Perhaps, they see colonizers took over their land, killed their way of life, and took and killed their children among of a few of the things. Yet, we asked them to be Canadian. Would expect a Jew to hail Hitler, or see the Nazi's point of view?


Maybe stop looking at it as 'extra' rights, but the rights the Colonizers took from them, which was their right to live their way of life. None of us can change time, and have them live their life as if colonizers weren't hear. However, we can look past our privilege and recognize that we all benefitted from colonization at the expense of the Indigenous. How about stop asking the Indigenous to get over something that was as recent at 1997 and take our responsibility in helping the healing and reconciliation. How about recognizing that as Canadians we have done very little to reconcile what happened. We need to stop asking Indigenous people to do things we think are right, but ask them what they want, and help them even if it's uncomfortable.

Provided extra supports to those that we ripped apart is not racism, it's trying to help break the cycle of systemic racism.
 
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Hasn't the "let bygones be bygones" type of attitude towards the past treatment of native people been a dismal failure ?

I think the first step is for the churches to turn over the records of all the children who died there so at least we know their names.

A second step is to ensure all the reserve communities have access to the basics of life.....housing, clean water, internet services, healthcare etc.

Other steps are to encourage economic development on native lands. They occupy some of the best land in Canada for tourist and ag industries.

One step at a time.......
They should get records.

All reserve communities have access to those things.
There is NOTHING stopping a native person from these things.
I paid someone to build my house, I pay to get clean water, I pay to get internet, and I pay to get government health care.
Some people don't have nice houses, clean water or good internet, it's because they didn't build them, or pay someone for them.

The problem with development on Native lands is they don't follow the same laws so they don't have the same opportunities.

Think about your mortgage, you don't pay, the bank gets your house.
On a Reserve, you can't seize the property if they don't pay, so they can't get a conventional mortgage.

T
 

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As far as endgame it's simple.
The authoritarian left wants to gain a dependant voting block.

They will use this as an excuse to put even more control and dependence on First Nations people, so that they stay poor and dependant on Federal government funding. Ideally with the goal of voting Liberal for all time.

The problem is that white supremacists like Trudeau honestly don't think that First Nations people are capable of taking care of themselves, which is laughable and paternalistic.
They're fully capable, if the government just got out of the way.

It's funny, liberals (like myself) and First Nations want the same thing, the government to stop making things worse.
 

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My wife attended a one room school in rural Saskatchewan in the 1950s..

There are no mass graves in that school yard, despite children being exposed to the same health dangers as the native children.

We need to know what happened in those schools. The government should make a final demand to the Catholic church to hand over all the records.

If the church refuses, start seizing their property for sale by the crown and direct the proceeds to improve conditions on the reserves.

Let the perpetrators pay. If they don't like it they can "offshore" their churches, as they do with their money.
 

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The government should make a final demand to the Catholic church.

If the church refuses, start seizing their property for sale by the crown and direct the proceeds to improve conditions on the reserves.
You do realize the people (governed the church and the government)that have done those things are long time dead? Do you want to prosecute their children and grandchildren?
If you want to help the reserves you are always welcome to make a donation.
There are many North American Indians (willing to work) who got off reserves and doing fairly well for themselves and the family. What exactly precludes the rest to follow if they are not happy with their life on reserves?
If I am not happy in one country I move to another.
 

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That is their choice to make.

Turn over all the records or everything you own will be seized and sold for reparations.

As noted by others, they should also fulfill the financial commitments they already made.

Sorry, but I have no intention of paying for the breach of responsiblity of a church.
 

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Let's get some facts out there -
The children were taken not voluntarily sent, like I was taught at school. Parents hid their children to try to prevent them from being taken.
You were taught wrong, sorry about that.

Provided extra supports to those that we ripped apart is not racism, it's trying to help break the cycle of systemic racism.
Absolutely.
However there is a VERY important distinction.

Providing support to someone, to whom bad things happened, is one thing. I support this.

To treat people differently because of their race is another, and that's called racism. I do not support racism.

To break the cycle of "systematic racism", we must not engage in creating systematic racism.
That's the problem, the government today is creating systematically racist programs, that BS needs to stop.

The best way to end racism is if people simply "stopped being racist".
Being racist to end racism is counterproductive.
 
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