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The number of COVID deaths isn't something any politician can control. Sure they might be able to influence, but only so much.
I don't think it's a fair measure of their ability.

What is he actually doing that isn't satisfactory?
Lack of Disclosure, Not disinfecting Public Coronavirus hotspots, lack of temperature checks of citizens, minimal or no testing done at airports & no results with using Technology-based Contact Tracing.

Your making excuses why it's not his fault or excusing him for the lackluster results. We should be holding the highest office in the province to a higher standard.
 

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Lack of Disclosure, Not disinfecting Public Coronavirus hotspots, lack of temperature checks of citizens, minimal or no testing done at airports & no results with using Technology-based Contact Tracing.

Your making excuses why it's not his fault or excusing him for the lackluster results. We should be holding the highest office in the province to a higher standard.
Few points.
1. I 'm not sure what disclosure you're expecting. They publish daily data updates, as does each health unit.
2. Disinfecting public hotposts? I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean walking the streets and spraying them with disinfectant? I'm not sure that makes sense, unless you're disinfecting subways etc. Which of course would be a municipal responsibility anyway. I guess if the city asked for help the Province could assist.
3. Temperature checks? Where and why? The asymptomatic spread is the biggest challenge with this.
4. Airports are Federal jurisdiction. They should have been shut down in February.
5. I'm not sure what you mean by "Technology based Contact Tracing", but if you mean stuff like illegally private data, yeah, it's good he didn't do that either. Also to make it legal, would again require changes in federal law.
 

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Few points.
1. I 'm not sure what disclosure you're expecting. They publish daily data updates, as does each health unit.
2. Disinfecting public hotposts? I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean walking the streets and spraying them with disinfectant? I'm not sure that makes sense, unless you're disinfecting subways etc. Which of course would be a municipal responsibility anyway. I guess if the city asked for help the Province could assist.
3. Temperature checks? Where and why? The asymptomatic spread is the biggest challenge with this.
4. Airports are Federal jurisdiction. They should have been shut down in February.
5. I'm not sure what you mean by "Technology-based Contact Tracing", but if you mean stuff like illegally private data, yeah, it's good he didn't do that either. Also to make it legal, would again require changes in federal law.
Airports are not an embassy and we're not talking about Aviation rules or zoning. Province can still make a ton of rules and decisions.

Most of the other points you're disputing can easily be found by online research into what other "successful" jurisdictions are doing to reduce their infected/death rates.

You're saying Doug Ford's response is nothing short of perfect and it's 100% out of his control and are satisfied with he infected count and death count. . .

It's a careless attitude and "good enough" mentality which delivers
 

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Every day there are more nursing home deaths....residents or health workers. The public will hold Ford accountable for his actions before the COVID.

That will all come in due time. Many groups, including nurse unions are demanding full public inquiries in the future and the public supports them.

Lawsuits have also been filed against nursing homes, and they will be pointing fingers at the government. It is going to get messy for Ford.
 

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Discussion Starter #205
Really good results in several provinces at least.

Manitoba: several days with zero or one new cases, basically a "nil" level for much of May. Very much under control right now.

Newfoundland: no new cases 9 days in a row. Appears to be under control right now.

British Columbia: epidemic curve shows a small trickle of new cases, small versus population. Still a handful of cases reported each day, but only one or two new hospitalizations daily. Appears to be on the brink of being controlled and BC Center for Disease Control says "risk of COVID-19 in BC is the lowest it has been since early March"

BC seems to be proving that this can be controlled, even with a rather large population and high population density. I think that's good news for Ontario. This can be managed.
 

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Manitoba: several days with zero or one new cases, basically a "nil" level for much of May. Very much under control right now.
5 days of zero cases as of yesterday. They also allow tests without referrals now. Interested to see what they do for phase 2 in the weeks ahead.
 

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Airports are not an embassy and we're not talking about Aviation rules or zoning. Province can still make a ton of rules and decisions.

Most of the other points you're disputing can easily be found by online research into what other "successful" jurisdictions are doing to reduce their infected/death rates.

You're saying Doug Ford's response is nothing short of perfect and it's 100% out of his control and are satisfied with he infected count and death count. . .

It's a careless attitude and "good enough" mentality which delivers
One problem in Canada is that people don't understand the roles of different levels of government.
The Federal government should have imposed and enforced border restrictions. That's their responsibility.

Never said that he was perfect, just that he's doing a pretty good job.
Nor did I say it's 100% out of his control.
The reality is that much of the spread is on the behaviour of individual people

I'm actually quite satisfied with the infected & Death counts, they're relatively good and it seems under control.
It isn't like we're in Quebecs situation, where they're trying to open things back up, while still having significant spread.
Or Germany where they've opened up, it's spreading, and the politicians opened the national borders.
Hop across US states, where we have things like Michigans oppressive ban where law enforcement says it's ridiculous and they're not enforcing it.

No Ford isn't perfect, never claimed that he was. Looking at the actions of other political leaders, I think Ford is doing a better job than many if not most, and I'm glad that he is.

Who said "Good Enough", and the thing is if something is "Good Enough", that literally means it's "Good Enough".
If you need to get to the airport by 9am, and you get there by 8:57, that's "Good enough", and there is nothing wrong with that attitude.

It seems you wanted "better" results, like zero deaths and zero cases, and that would have been nice, but that isn't within the power of the Government.
 

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It will be interesting to see if we get a spike around 2 weeks from now, following this long weekend. Remember, there is a lag between transmission happening and it showing up in more cases.

I was taking some garden waste to our local garden waste yard yesterday and noticed the parking lot at Home Hardware was full of vehicles. There was no line up to go inside so I can only assume that there was no way distancing was being maintained inside the store.

Number of cases today does not tell us what affect easing up has, we have to wait to see that 2 weeks or more down the road.
 

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It will be interesting to see if we get a spike around 2 weeks from now, following this long weekend. Remember, there is a lag between transmission happening and it showing up in more cases.

I was taking some garden waste to our local garden waste yard yesterday and noticed the parking lot at Home Hardware was full of vehicles. There was no line up to go inside so I can only assume that there was no way distancing was being maintained inside the store.

Number of cases today does not tell us what affect easing up has, we have to wait to see that 2 weeks or more down the road.
I'd put money on a spike in 2 weeks, however the number of cases is so low in someareas, that I think there is virtually no transmission in many centers.
It's the travelling that will get us.
 

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I'd put money on a spike in 2 weeks, however the number of cases is so low in someareas, that I think there is virtually no transmission in many centers.
It's the travelling that will get us.
Yes, I tend to agree with that assessment. In our immediate area, there have been very few cases of community transmission at all. But now that the summer season is arriving, I can foresee people from the cities starting to show up as 'tourists' even if they are only day tripping. What they may bring with them, who knows.

So a day tripper goes into say our local Foodland to buy a Coke and a candy bar and voila, the next thing is it spreads the virus from there. That's why so many smaller towns who get a lot of tourists are not happy at all with the idea of tourism coming back this summer.


Our small town is on a popular motorcycle 'backroad travel' route of some kind. Every weekend, spring through fall and even on weekdays, we see a lot of motorcylces go through town. Many of them stop at Timmy's etc. Every one that does this year will increase the risk for our town residents.
 

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From what I have seen from my travels and watching neighbors holding bbqs and gatherings in their courtyards.......the second wave is going to be a doozy.
 

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6 days now with zero cases in MB.

It appears many stores here are letting everyone in (except Best Buy). I didn't see any lines at Home Depot or Superstore and their parking lots were nearly full. We'll see how this plays out ...
 

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Discussion Starter #219
Earlier I mentioned BC as an interesting case, because the rate of infection & death is surprisingly low for such a large (and dense) population. Bloomberg is running an article on BC's response:
Behind North America's Lowest Death Rate

They credit Dr. Bonnie Henry for acting early. A virologist comments that Dr. Henry "was able to galvanize the public across British Columbia to understand that this was something new and very different". She is a former military doctor, and was also a health officer in Toronto during SARS. Previously worked on Ebola outbreaks in Africa.

What great background experience! I suspect that military experience also gave her an advantage.

Apparently BC was one of the first places in the world to roll out a test, just shortly after January 10. By February, BC was testing more people than all of the United States.

BC expertly tackled outbreaks in nursing homes, having the province take over nursing homes at the first sign of infection.

The health officer also has the power, and the visibility in messaging.

British Columbia’s top politician, Premier John Horgan, has taken a back seat in the public eye; it’s Henry who presides over daily briefings.

That has been key, said Peter Berman, a public-health expert at the University of British Columbia. “The same scientist who was empowered to lead this effort also has the authority to issue instructions.”
 
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