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Can you see how this could get someone to risk deportation, their health and put up with being treated badly? Would you not perhaps consider doing the same for your family if you were them?

Here in Canada, even our poor have no idea of what real poverty is like in other parts of the world. We haven't 'walked in their moccassins'.
Absolutely, and I'm sure I'd be thinking the same things.
I also agree we in Canada are so spoiled that many literally can't conceive of how bad things can get.

That's WHY I'm Conservative!
Also it's why I want democracy and rights to improve around the world.
You look at the poor countries around the world, and one of the most common threads is their broken government institutions.

So when I see someone like Trudeau actively trying to destroy trust and faith in our institutions, I get angry.
 

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Discussion Starter #62
10 days ago we heard there were 26 flights with people on them who later tested positive. Now we are hearing of 30 flights in the last 2 weeks with people testing positive. There appears to be an overlap in those flights but all 26 reported earlier are not overlapping. So maybe it's something like 40 flights in the last 4 weeks or so.

Is this going to be the 'new normal', accepting the risk of flying when you may be flying on a plane with someone who has the virus?
 

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10 days ago we heard there were 26 flights with people on them who later tested positive. Now we are hearing of 30 flights in the last 2 weeks with people testing positive. There appears to be an overlap in those flights but all 26 reported earlier are not overlapping. So maybe it's something like 40 flights in the last 4 weeks or so.

Is this going to be the 'new normal', accepting the risk of flying when you may be flying on a plane with someone who has the virus?
Maybe Trudeau should close the border?
 

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Is this going to be the 'new normal', accepting the risk of flying when you may be flying on a plane with someone who has the virus?
One has to assume it is a higher risk though I don't know the numbers of "others on those flights" infected from their flight. In other words, has anyone gotten it from taking a domestic flight?

Not sure where I read this but one of those international flights with an infected person took a domestic flight the same day they came back into Canada. If true, how is that possible with the mandatory 14 day quarantine?
 

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One has to assume it is a higher risk though I don't know the numbers of "others on those flights" infected from their flight. In other words, has anyone gotten it from taking a domestic flight?

Not sure where I read this but one of those international flights with an infected person took a domestic flight the same day they came back into Canada. If true, how is that possible with the mandatory 14 day quarantine?
Trudeau hasn't taken any action to monitor or enforce the quarantine "suggestion".
He just lets them in and leaves it up to the provinces to deal with his mess.

Two Americans charged with breaking Canada's quarantine rules
 

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I agree that we can't blame the workers, but we can blame the government and the employers.
We can also blame the workers for engaging in illegal activity, the employers for engaging and encouraging it, and teh government for not taking appropriate action to end it.

Finally, when they're doing COVID19 screening, if you're sick and run away to avoid testing, irrespective of your immigration crime, you're part of the pandemic problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #68
We can also blame the workers for engaging in illegal activity, the employers for engaging and encouraging it, and teh government for not taking appropriate action to end it.

Finally, when they're doing COVID19 screening, if you're sick and run away to avoid testing, irrespective of your immigration crime, you're part of the pandemic problem.
Where do you get this stuff? It is the farm owners who are the ones resisting testing.

It's all about money and lost production for them.
 

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Where do you get this stuff? It is the farm owners who are the ones resisting testing.

It's all about money and lost production for them.
Great article.
"...it's unclear when that took place or why the others haven't done it. "

So it seems like it's unclear why it isn't happening.

Any evidence to back up your claim it's the farm owners?

I think it's likely a combination of
1. In general it's hard to coordinate stuff.
2. Ineffective government & public health resources
3. Farmers don't want to interrupt their work.
4. Migrants don't want to lose a paycheck.

I personally think it's mostly #1, but the other 3 contribute.

If my working season is only a few months long, and I'm providing for my whole family, I sure as @#[email protected]#$ don't want to get sidelined because of this. Particularly if you've heard that it's not a big deal for a healthy person as yourself.
 

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Discussion Starter #72
Great article.
"...it's unclear when that took place or why the others haven't done it. "

So it seems like it's unclear why it isn't happening.

Any evidence to back up your claim it's the farm owners?

I think it's likely a combination of
1. In general it's hard to coordinate stuff.
2. Ineffective government & public health resources
3. Farmers don't want to interrupt their work.
4. Migrants don't want to lose a paycheck.

I personally think it's mostly #1, but the other 3 contribute.

If my working season is only a few months long, and I'm providing for my whole family, I sure as @#[email protected]#$ don't want to get sidelined because of this. Particularly if you've heard that it's not a big deal for a healthy person as yourself.
I don't think there is any real question of who has hold of the reins in this issue MrMatt and what their priorities are.
 

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I don't think there is any real question of who has hold of the reins in this issue MrMatt and what their priorities are.
I'd like to point out that worker has quite a motivation to lie.
He's asking for immigration status, and has sick family.
If he can skip the immigration process and pull them to Ontario, that's winning the lottery.

If I was him, I'd be making as much noise as possible to try and get public pressure to let me and my family into Canada.

I'm not saying the employer is clean. I'm just pointing out that he also has significant motivation for his statements.
 

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Discussion Starter #74
I'd like to point out that worker has quite a motivation to lie.
He's asking for immigration status, and has sick family.
If he can skip the immigration process and pull them to Ontario, that's winning the lottery.

If I was him, I'd be making as much noise as possible to try and get public pressure to let me and my family into Canada.

I'm not saying the employer is clean. I'm just pointing out that he also has significant motivation for his statements.
That may be true MrMatt but I would still consider it irrelevant. The real issue and problem is the living conditions that the workers live in. There is no way to maintain distancing in a bunkhouse. These living conditions simply cannot work when there is a virus to be dealt with. So who has control over the living conditions, the workers or the employers?

If the employers cannot provide SAFE living conditions then they should not be allowed to employ the workers, it' as simple as that. But what's not simple is what that would do to their business and even the public's need for fresh veggies. So it' a rock and a hard place but the ONLY people who can change it are the employers, not the workers.

I think a lot of people are BLAMING the workers and angry that those workers are then walking around in their communities. I would be angry too if I lived in say Leamington. But I would NOT be blaming the workers, I'd be demanding change by the employers.

A Leamington developer is in fact building housing specifically for migrant workers and that is a good thing but why are the employers themselves not building such housing? Or working with developers to provide it such as in this case.

The employers are all about the MONEY and bunk houses cost less obviously. Bunk houses for 576 workers do not cost as much as the $20 million the developer is spending on 3 bedroom, 3 bathroom apartments to house them in the article above.
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Discussion Starter #75
What Canadians do you think would live in the above (photo) conditions MrMatt? I certainly would not. Yet that is how migrant workers are expected to live. They do so because they see themselves as having no choice, they need the money. But they are being taken advantage of because of their need and treated just about as sub-human.

The virus has simply provided a situation that highlights how bad their living conditions are and what has happened as a result of these conditions. It's much like the deaths in Long Term Care homes has highlighted the deficiencies in them. And just like the LTC homes, it's about private business and MONEY with not enough government regulation in place to insure decent treatment of the individuals. Whether our senior citizens or our migrant workers, they deserve to be treated decently and allowed to keep their dignity.
 

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What Canadians do you think would live in the above (photo) conditions MrMatt? I certainly would not. Yet that is how migrant workers are expected to live. They do so because they see themselves as having no choice, they need the money. But they are being taken advantage of because of their need and treated just about as sub-human.

The virus has simply provided a situation that highlights how bad their living conditions are and what has happened as a result of these conditions. It's much like the deaths in Long Term Care homes has highlighted the deficiencies in them. And just like the LTC homes, it's about private business and MONEY with not enough government regulation in place to insure decent treatment of the individuals. Whether our senior citizens or our migrant workers, they deserve to be treated decently and allowed to keep their dignity.
I think those are just fine living accommodations.

I've stayed in those types of barracks in Canada and the US.
 

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You should see how the military sleeps on training or deployment. For training just replace those sheets with wool fire blankets, remove the lazyboy in foreground and clean up the clutter so that both bunks can be used
 

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Discussion Starter #78
I think those are just fine living accommodations.

I've stayed in those types of barracks in Canada and the US.
Well, I'm sorry to hear your standards as to what constitutes 'fine living' is so low MrMatt. But that isn't the question I asked you.

I asked what Canadians and by that I mean Canadian workers would accept those accommodations as well as the working conditions and pay that the migrant workers have. The answer to that seem to me to be self-evident. If Canadian farm workers were willing to accept it, we would have no need for migrant workers.

The fact is that farms cannot get Canadians to work under the conditions migrant workers face.
 

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Discussion Starter #79
You should see how the military sleeps on training or deployment. For training just replace those sheets with wool fire blankets, remove the lazyboy in foreground and clean up the clutter so that both bunks can be used
We aren't talking about the military though are we m3s, we are talking about farm workers. As I just wrote to MrMatt, try getting Canadian workers to accept the same conditions. They won't and that's why we have migrant workers.

It isn't as if every Canadian is employed and so there are no workers to do the job. We have physically able people who are unemployed and could do the work the migrants do, they just refuse to do it given the conditions and pay.
 

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We aren't talking about the military though are we m3s, we are talking about farm workers. As I just wrote to MrMatt, try getting Canadian workers to accept the same conditions. They won't and that's why we have migrant workers.

It isn't as if every Canadian is employed and so there are no workers to do the job. We have physically able people who are unemployed and could do the work the migrants do, they just refuse to do it given the conditions and pay.
Well as a Canadian, who has accepted those working conditions, I think they're just fine.
They're also temporary onsite accommodations, if you wanted to go home at the end of the day you could.

I agree, we have workers who are unemployed and physically able to do the work, but they refuse to.
I've done farm work, picking, and it sucks, but I needed money so I did it.

How did I pay for all the school to get a fancy degree, where I sit at a desk writing email every day?
I got a job and worked. My summers were spent getting dirty and sweaty and working.
Oh and I worked through school too.

The big problem is Canadians are getting lazy and entitled.
It's bad for the country and it's bad for the people.
 
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