Online trading question

5205 Views 33 Replies 7 Participants Last post by Eclectic12, Apr 27, 2016

Canuck

Discussion Starter · Apr 25, 2016

Married friends want to open a joint cash trading account. No problem. Neither has ever contributed to a TFSA, so they also want to open 2 TFSA.

Is it possible to have the 2 TFSA show up in the 1 Joint Cash account? One in each of their names, but visible to both by just signing into the one Joint Cash account.

They are going with Credential Direct, I tried calling them but I don't think she had a clue what I was trying to say. She kept just saying a TFSA can only be in one name, which I know.

Thanks for any help

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Canuck

Discussion Starter · #2 · Apr 25, 2016

Oh and any recommendations for solid Canadian, lower volatility, dividend stocks would be great. They are new to investing but sick of getting .6% in savings account.

My thoughts so far are BCE, Emera or Fortis, Chartwell, Bam.a (maybe), maybe Manulife or Sunlife. Think really long term holdings.

AltaRed

· #3 · Apr 25, 2016 (Edited)

Not possible for both TFSA accounts to show up on one online screen, with the 'probable' exception of each of them having explicit trading rights in either other's TFSA. Otherwise, it is a case of him seeing: the Joint Cash account plus his own TFSA account, and her seeing: the Joint Cash Account plus her own TFSA account.

I say 'probable' only because a few brokerages I have experience with do permit that (with authorized trading rights) and it logically follows if each of the couple can trade in each other's TFSA, they have to have access to each other's account.

Added: With respect to investing, if they are new to investing, it is idiotic for them to start stock picking. There is a lot more to stock picking than following the recommendations of anonymous posters on the Internet. They would be wise to learning about investing first, e.g. Couch Potato, or www.finiki.org, and then only after sorting out the concepts of financial planning and development of a financial plan, should they then get into Portfolio Design and Product Selection. Hint: 2-4 index mutual funds or ETFs

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0xCC

· #4 · Apr 25, 2016

As the Credential Direct rep told you, TFSAs are individual accounts so there is no way to make them joint.

However, I am with TDDI and I have trading authority over my parent's accounts. When I log in I see all of my accounts plus all of my parent's accounts. So it might be possible for your friends to have trading authority or power of attorney over each other's TFSA which might make the other spouse's TFSA account show up in their list of accounts.

I only have experience with TDDI so this might be different with other brokerages.

Canuck

Discussion Starter · #5 · Apr 25, 2016

Thanks AltaRed, there is a part on the application that if checked allows trading rights to someone. May be worth filling out each others name and seeing how it plays out.
ETF's are an option as well. Not interested in mutual funds, they've been eaten alive by poor performing, high MER funds in the past.

Canuck

Discussion Starter · #6 · Apr 25, 2016

Thanks Oxcc. We're aware that TFSA can't be held as a joint account. I think you guys are onto something in regards to allowing trading rights to each other which would enable the 2 TFSA to show up in the one Cash account.

0xCC

· #7 · Apr 25, 2016

I think the question you can ask Credential Direct is if they allow trading authority/Power of Attorney and if they do will all the accounts that one person has authority over show up when logged into the website under one login.

Video_Frank

· #8 · Apr 25, 2016

AltaRed said:
Not possible for both TFSA accounts to show up on one online screen, with the 'probable' exception of each of them having explicit trading rights in either other's TFSA. Otherwise, it is a case of him seeing: the Joint Cash account plus his own TFSA account, and her seeing: the Joint Cash Account plus her own TFSA account.

We can. When I log in I can see the point non-reg, my wife's non-reg, both RRSP and both TFSAs. This is with BMOIL

Canuck

Discussion Starter · #9 · Apr 25, 2016

Perfect! Thank you Video Frank.

mordko

· #10 · Apr 25, 2016

Video_Frank said:
We can. When I log in I can see the point non-reg, my wife's non-reg, both RRSP and both TFSAs. This is with BMOIL

Ditto with Questrade.

AltaRed

· #11 · Apr 25, 2016

Video_Frank said:
We can. When I log in I can see the point non-reg, my wife's non-reg, both RRSP and both TFSAs. This is with BMOIL

But you have trading rights on all, correct?

Video_Frank

· #12 · Apr 25, 2016

AltaRed said:
But you have trading rights on all, correct?

Yes, that's correct.

Canuck

Discussion Starter · #13 · Apr 25, 2016

Well I just called Credential to get some info and talked to yet another rep who told me that under no circumstance can my friends do this. They both have to have their own Cash account if they want a TFSA. So two sign in passwords & account numbers, with their money divided equally between them.

Weird

Either they haven't a clue or...

I mentioned that others do it at other trading companies and she just replied "well that's not us".

Choosing Credential only because they bank with Vancity and they are partnered, which my friends liked, wouldn't be my first choice.

0xCC

· #14 · Apr 25, 2016 (Edited)

I think maybe you didn't ask the right question.

They will both have their own accounts and their own login. By default when they log in they will see the joint account and their own TFSA and that is it.

The question is what happens when one of them has trading authority over both TFSA's?

Then the final question (which you shouldn't ask because it shows a hole in the system/shows that you are trying to play the system) is what happens when they both have trading authority over each other's TFSA?

Edit to add: there will be 3 accounts, there isn't any way around that. One joint, her TFSA and his TFSA. The issue is whether everyone can see everyone else's accounts.

Eclectic12

· #15 · Apr 25, 2016

Canuck said:
... We're aware that TFSA can't be held as a joint account. I think you guys are onto something in regards to allowing trading rights to each other which would enable the 2 TFSA to show up in the one Cash account.

I haven't set this up but I am not sure it will quite show up the way you are thinking.

I suspect that most brokerages would display it as joint account #, then the person logged in TFSA number and finally the trading rights TFSA number. Or maybe the trading rights TFSA would be on a separate tab.

I would expect everything to be accessible using one's login but I would not expect everything to show up "in the one Cash account". Otherwise, the financial institution would opening themselves up to claims that they should pay for TFSA over-contribution penalties as "I thought I was contributing to my TFSA, not my partner's".

Cheers

mordko

· #16 · Apr 25, 2016

Canuck said:
Well I just called Credential to get some info and talked to yet another rep who told me that under no circumstance can my friends do this. They both have to have their own Cash account if they want a TFSA. So two sign in passwords & account numbers, with their money divided equally between them.

Weird

Either they haven't a clue or...

I mentioned that others do it at other trading companies and she just replied "well that's not us".

Choosing Credential only because they bank with Vancity and they are partnered, which my friends liked, wouldn't be my first choice.

They are certainly not among the best: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...annual-online-broker-ranking/article27571960/

"Partnering" is neither here nor there; it's just a cross-marketing technique.

Canuck

Discussion Starter · #17 · Apr 25, 2016

0xCC said:
I think maybe you didn't ask the right question.

They will both have their own accounts and their own login. By default when they log in they will see the joint account and their own TFSA and that is it.

The question is what happens when one of them has trading authority over both TFSA's?

Then the final question (which you shouldn't ask because it shows a hole in the system/shows that you are trying to play the system) is what happens when they both have trading authority over each other's TFSA?

Edit to add: there will be 3 accounts, there isn't any way around that. One joint, her TFSA and his TFSA. The issue is whether everyone can see everyone else's accounts.

Ideally they want to see both TFSA in the one account. At this point they will only be using their TFSA, as they have 93,000 between them of contribution room and they are only depositing $90,000.

I guess there really is no point of them opening a joint account if this can't happen. Each should just open a Cash account and add a TFSA. Deposit $45,000 into each of them.

Canuck

Discussion Starter · #18 · Apr 25, 2016

"The issue is whether everyone can see everyone else's accounts."

According to the Rep "no". You can't see the others TFSA unless you sign into their Cash account.

AltaRed

· #19 · Apr 25, 2016

There seems to be some misinterpretation here. A TFSA is a separate account. There is no such thing as 2 TFSA's in one account. What we thought you were talking about is a joint cash account (non-registered) and each having their own TFSA (registered) accounts, i.e. 3 accounts total. If they do not have the funds for 2 TFSA accounts and a cash account, what is the point in opening a Cash account at this time? Unless they were going to only fund it with the minimum cash permitted?

Each can see the other's TFSA if each other has trading rights in each other's TFSA accounts.

Canuck

Discussion Starter · #20 · Apr 25, 2016

I'm with Waterhouse & the only drawback I have is I have no savings or checking account with TD bank, so while I can get money into that account by doing a bill payment through Vancity, the only way I can get money from Waterhouse back to Vancity is by calling....not the best method.

What about RBC trading? does anyone know if they link competing banks to do easy EFTransfers back and forth? This appears important to my friends that they can do this.

Credential is bugging me already...

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