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Discussion Starter · #61 ·
So what you are saying is that protesters in Portland who burnt down government building...
The protesters obviously should not harm property or set fire to buildings and should face consequences for it. All of that is illegal.

All of this is irrelevant anyway, just the knee-jerk "what aboutisms" the right wing is obsessed with. A very typical far right reaction, a method they learn from right wing media. This is a way to draw attention from the right wing's horrendous activities, something that @Eder and @MrMatt have engaged in for a long time (a way to cover and defend the far right) and @damian13ster is another right winger trying the same thing.

The issue is that MAGA people stormed and took over the Capitol and drove lawmakers into hiding. This thread has nothing to do with other protesters, animal right protesters, or friends of Tibet, etc.

MAGA people stormed the Capitol, beat up cops, and threatened to kill top government officials.
 

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The protesters obviously should not harm property or set fire to buildings and should face consequences for it. All of that is illegal.

All of this is irrelevant anyway, just the knee-jerk "what aboutisms" the right wing is obsessed with. A very typical far right reaction, a method they learn from right wing media. This is a way to draw attention from the right wing's horrendous activities, something that @Eder and @MrMatt have engaged in for a long time (a way to cover and defend the far right) and @damian13ster is another right winger trying the same thing.

The issue is that MAGA people stormed and took over the Capitol and drove lawmakers into hiding. This thread has nothing to do with other protesters, animal right protesters, or friends of Tibet, etc.

MAGA people stormed the Capitol, beat up cops, and threatened to kill top government officials.
The bolded is where the facts are.

Rest is just your opinion. You can say right wing is doing 'whataboutism' (although I am curious why, the definition doesn't seem to apply at all), you can say whatever else you want - after all this is just your own subjective opinion. One can say left wing is hypocritical and has double standard - also a subjective opinion. All of those are just opinions and aren't really worth much.

Your labels are also worthless. What's your definition of right-wing. You know very little, to almost nothing about me, and I imagine it is the same with Mr.Matt, yet you already put a label on. That's precisely the closed-mindness which leads to lack of objectivity and extremism - root cause of societal division.

The other people who stormed and actually burned down governments building have a lot to do with this thread, precisely because they show the double-standards society applies. Objectivity is sadly gone from public discussion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #63 ·
You can say right wing is doing 'whataboutism' (although I am curious why, the definition doesn't seem to apply at all), you can say whatever else you want - after all this is just your own subjective opinion
I say this because you're bringing up something irrelevant. What other kinds of protesters (like those who want to free Tibet) do, is irrelevant to the significant riots and aggression towards the government on January 6.
 

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I say this because you're bringing up something irrelevant. What other kinds of protesters (like those who want to free Tibet) do, is irrelevant to the significant riots and aggression towards the government on January 6.
You feel it is irrelevant because you generally focus on irrelevant information - chasing a shiny new toy politician gave you so you get distracted.

You do that with COVID. Focusing on 10% of people who made different medical choices than you did instead of seeing how ineffective those in charge have been.

And you do that here, focusing on couple hundred idiots vs considering and focusing on root cause of the problems.
Shiny new toy given by politicians to keep you busy and engaged.
Trump himself was not a cause of division - he was a symptom.
The cause was permeation of ideologies into all faucets of life increasing divisions within society, discouraging debates, exchange of ideas, and disenfranchising significant portion of population.
Trump took advantage of that - he was a symptom of a disease that took roots in politics a long time ago.

Unfortunately, instead of focusing on the cause of the problems, they made you focus on a symptom. So you get rabid about couple hundred idiots instead of questioning how we got there in the first place.

This is precisely why bringing up other rioters who stormed and burned down government buildings is extremely relevant. It shows that the ideologies that led to the division and hate have permeated not only media, politics, but also law enforcement and legal system. Legal decisions are being made based on ideologies, on 'whataboutism' rather than on actions that the perpetrators took. The checks and balances are being removed - at rapid pace.

Instead of addressing the cause of the division and hate, politicians doubled down and are driving the wedge even further. In the meantime you keep playing with your shiny toy and be ignorant about the furthering of the very causes that have led to it.
 

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The people protesting (and in some cases rioting) on Jan 6 made the mistake of thinking that they'd be treated the same as left wing protestors and rioters. They found out the hard way that isn't the case.

I want all rioters and protestors treated equally.

James wants them to be treated differently. The government wants them treated differently. And that's the problem.
 

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They came to stop the government from operating.
Which is what the people burning down government buildings in Portland were doing as well.
Not at all. The protesters there were just impeding regular procedural work.
It constantly surprises me that for someone who has above average financial knowledge, you have this level of political bias/blindness.

Man you right wingers sure get dramatic when it suits you. Other times you call everyone else a dramatic snowflake.
I think it was as wrong to engage in a violent riot in city X.
It was wrong to damage government buildings in city X.
 

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Discussion Starter · #68 · (Edited)
It constantly surprises me that for someone who has above average financial knowledge, you have this level of political bias/blindness.
Hilarious. You're one of the most biased people here on political matters. The DC riots are a great example of this. You often talk about how important upholding society's most valuable principles are, and there is nothing more central to our society than democracy and freedom. Democracy is central to our way of life. And yet here, you have an example of aggressors who tried to overthrow democracy.

But for some reason, the DC riot doesn't seem to worry you much, even though its an insult to your [supposedly] most sacred principles. But I think the riot doesn't bother you much because you sympathize and identify with those MAGA guys to some extent.

This makes me wonder what your core values really are. Is liberal democracy actually important to you? Do you support free elections, and peaceful transition of power?
 

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The events of January 6, 2020 on Capitol Hills was an insurrection/coup attempt that became unsuccessful and subequently morphed into a "riot" (in the tamest terms), not a protest even however turned violent.

Protestings does not require direct storming directly into (governmental) buildings, smashing stuffs and screaming to hang Mike Pence or other officials. Nor does putting up 2 dirty boots on Nancy Pelosi's desk representative of a "protest" - of what exactly there?
 

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Discussion Starter · #70 ·
They constructed gallows outside the government building. They went inside chanting "hang Mike Pence", forcing their way through barricades and police barriers.

If they had succeeded in capturing Pelosi, Pence and others, the crowd could have executed them on the scene. They seemed ready to do it. They were violently attacking police and almost beat one cop to death.

That's far right extremists for you: pretend they love police, pretend they love law and order... while beating up and crushing cops and trying to overturn law & order. They are a menace to society.

Right wing extremism is probably going to end the United States of America in its modern form. The country might turn towards fascism or authoritarianism.
 

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Hilarious. You're one of the most biased people here on political matters.
Absolutely

The DC riots are a great example of this.
Not sure how, a protest got violent and it was quickly quelled.
Public officials were quick to condemn the actions.
Isn't that what we wanted to happen?

You often talk about how important upholding society's most valuable principles are, and there is nothing more central to our society than democracy and freedom. Democracy is central to our way of life. And yet here, you have an example of aggressors who tried to overthrow democracy.
And they were quickly stopped by law enforcement.

But for some reason, the DC riot doesn't seem to worry you much, even though its an insult to your [supposedly] most sacred principles. But I think the riot doesn't bother you much because you sympathize and identify with those MAGA guys to some extent.
Why would I worry about a situation where pretty much everyone in power agreed it was wrong and needed to stop?
Once the initial situation was resolved, there was very little to be concerned about, pretty much everyone agreed they should not have let that happen.

This makes me wonder what your core values really are. Is liberal democracy actually important to you? Do you support free elections, and peaceful transition of power?
I've been very clear on free elections, you're simply trolling to suggest I don't.

I have some of the most liberal values here, and for free elections specifically I've written extensively how they are under threat with the interest into online voting etc, which CAN'T be free and secure.
Without free elections we don't have a democracy.
 

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Precisely. On January 6, the reaction from everyone other than whoever was responsible for capitol security is exactly what it should be.
There were couple hundred idiots, that's pretty much it. There was absolutely no threat to democracy and authorities reacted exactly the way they should have.
In the meantime, during summer riots, the authorities didn't react. That is why it is much more worrying and much higher risk to democracy and freedom. When authorities ignore the mob - that's a problem. When authorities react properly to the mob - then that's a good thing.
On January 6 they reacted properly.
 

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The FBI is now moving up to the conspirators of the riot, who will face serious felony charges for conspiracy to obstruct Congress.

They will have their day in court and spend their years in prison. Donald Trump is on the list.
 

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The rise of mob rioting from both extremes is concerning to the principles of democracy and the rule of law. Add in the constant attacks against the police and their reluctance to enforce the law is also very troubling. Canada is not out of the woods on this front. I can point out a number of rail and other blockades that ignored court orders and injunctions. A few close calls with terrorists to boot.
 

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The rise of mob rioting from both extremes is concerning to the principles of democracy and the rule of law. Add in the constant attacks against the police and their reluctance to enforce the law is also very troubling. Canada is not out of the woods on this front. I can point out a number of rail and other blockades that ignored court orders and injunctions. A few close calls with terrorists to boot.
I agree, the problem is when authorities refuse to enforce the law
 

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Discussion Starter · #77 ·
A few close calls with terrorists to boot.
Absolutely. A right wing extremist army reservist loaded up his truck with guns, and went to Ottawa, rammed his truck into the gate at the PM's residence. RCMP eventually responded and there was a foot chase, the terrorist with his loaded weapon on the grounds of the PM's residence.

Similarly, a neo Nazi extremist (Patrik Mathews) in Manitoba, also a military reservist with weapons training, was in a right wing terrorist cell in Canada. He fled to the United States, where the FBI soon picked him up. His terrorist network was planning a variety of attacks, both in Canada and the US. He's now serving 9 years in prison.

The RCMP doesn't seem very good at catching domestic terrorists. They didn't do anything about Patrik Mathews until a young reporter from the Winnipeg Free Press wrote a story on him. And Mathews quickly evaded the RCMP and was able to flee the country.
 

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Absolutely. A right wing extremist army reservist loaded up his truck with guns, and went to Ottawa, rammed his truck into the gate at the PM's residence. RCMP eventually responded and there was a foot chase, the terrorist with his loaded weapon on the grounds of the PM's residence.

Similarly, a neo Nazi extremist (Patrik Mathews) in Manitoba, also a military reservist with weapons training, was in a right wing terrorist cell in Canada. He fled to the United States, where the FBI soon picked him up. His terrorist network was planning a variety of attacks, both in Canada and the US. He's now serving 9 years in prison.

The RCMP doesn't seem very good at catching domestic terrorists. They didn't do anything about Patrik Mathews until a young reporter from the Winnipeg Free Press wrote a story on him. And Mathews quickly evaded the RCMP and was able to flee the country.
Go back to the Harper years the RCMP uncovered a major ring of jihadists bent on beheading Harper and blowing up the Langevin building and CN Towers. Another group had big plans for blowing up a major train.A couple were nabbed with a plot to ignite a big nail bomb at Victoria on July 1 and all remember the assault on Parliament and the terroist was killed by a clerk of the H of Cs. Around September 11 the USA nabbed a Canadian jidahist plot from Canada to blow up the LA Airport. We have extremists on both sides of the extremes. The media likes to focus on right wing extremists when there is no shortage on the left.
 

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The media likes to focus on right wing extremists when there is no shortage on the left.
The examples you give are all religious conservative (muslim) schemes, or supposed schemes. They have more in common with christian fundamentalist right wing ideology than with any liberal agenda.

And,

A couple were nabbed with a plot to ignite a big nail bomb at Victoria
...and it was later determined that the whole scheme was thought up and driven by the police themselves.


Appeals court agrees with trial judge's ruling that John Nuttall and Amanda Korody were manipulated by police.
 
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