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I don't know what laws are applicable in your area mcowan but in the condo I lived in in BC, a tow truck towing a vehicle from private property at the behest of the property owner meant that the property owner was liable for any damage to the vehicle that resulted from the towing. That lovely legal word 'liability' stops a lot of things in their tracks. So rather than risk liability it was easier to threaten to force the sale of the unit.

Why doesn't your condo board simply send those with fridges on the balcony a letter from their lawyer threatening to force the sale of the unit if they don't comply?
They do it occasionally. Chest fridges are harder to detect and tough to move(loaded with food). But after a while it creeps back. They prohibit storing bikes but their central storage for bikes is not ideal. They do not prohibit taking bikes on the elevators.
 

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I don't know what laws are applicable in your area mcowan but in the condo I lived in in BC, a tow truck towing a vehicle from private property at the behest of the property owner meant that the property owner was liable for any damage to the vehicle that resulted from the towing. That lovely legal word 'liability' stops a lot of things in their tracks. So rather than risk liability it was easier to threaten to force the sale of the unit.

Why doesn't your condo board simply send those with fridges on the balcony a letter from their lawyer threatening to force the sale of the unit if they don't comply?
LTA, can you cite some authority for the proposition that "a tow truck towing a vehicle from private property at the behest of the property owner meant that the property owner was liable for any damage to the vehicle that resulted from the towing"? Whence does said liability flow? Is there a provincial statute to which you can point that imposes such civil liability? Or do you rely on cases decided by the courts? I have not been able to find one to that effect. Is it a case of strict liability? Of absolute liability? Do not ordinary principles of negligence, bailment and contract law apply? Is not the towing company likely to be the prime target of any claim for towing damage? Has the principle that a tortfeasor is always liable for his own tort been displaced in towing cases? I am not saying you are wrong, but I am saying you seem of have some knowledge of a niche area of the law that I lack and I would appreciate your assistance in filling this apparent lacuna in my knowledge base.

As for "threatening to force a sale of the unit", does that not seem a bit extreme as a first salvo over an illegally-parked fridge? When you sat on what you call a "condo board" (known for some decades in BC as the "strata council"), did you ever do that?

I would think you'd be hard pressed to find a lawyer willing to pen such a threat. Most lawyers learn that you never threaten anything you do not intend to actually do. So, to force a sale, what would ordinarily be expected would be, in brief compass: to have in place a properly-enacted bylaw prohibiting fridges etc. on balconies. In case of a violation, a warning and cease and desist letter should issue from the strata corporation manager or the strata council. Then there would come the levying of a fine, if such be contemplated by the bylaw. Let's say a fine of $x for every day of violation. When the fines have gone unpaid, then time to file a lien against the title to the strata lot in the Land Title Office. Then apply for judgment on the lien. Then apply for a sale, which may or may not be granted. The whole tedious (and costly) process is captured fairly well in this BC Court of Appeal judgment:

Strata Plan LMS 307 v. Krusoczki, 2006 BCCA 154


So, returning to your question:

Why doesn't your condo board simply send those with fridges on the balcony a letter from their lawyer threatening to force the sale of the unit if they don't comply?
With kcowan's indulgence, permit me to answer. The condo board does not "simply" do it because it would be a dumb idea, assuming some lawyer could be put up to it.
 

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They do it occasionally. Chest fridges are harder to detect and tough to move(loaded with food). But after a while it creeps back. They prohibit storing bikes but their central storage for bikes is not ideal. They do not prohibit taking bikes on the elevators.
Why don't they pass a bylaw disallowing bikes on elevators then?

I have only ever lived in one condo and I have to say, never again would I choose to do so. While I had no problem with abiding by the rules, the petty nature of some residents in that regard just made me not want to share my living space with such people. It's hard to smile and say good morning on the elevator to someone you know is being an *******. It's like a bad neighbour who you cannot avoid.
 

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LTA, can you cite some authority for the proposition that "a tow truck towing a vehicle from private property at the behest of the property owner meant that the property owner was liable for any damage to the vehicle that resulted from the towing"? Whence does said liability flow? Is there a provincial statute to which you can point that imposes such civil liability? Or do you rely on cases decided by the courts? I have not been able to find one to that effect. Is it a case of strict liability? Of absolute liability? Do not ordinary principles of negligence, bailment and contract law apply? Is not the towing company likely to be the prime target of any claim for towing damage? Has the principle that a tortfeasor is always liable for his own tort been displaced in towing cases? I am not saying you are wrong, but I am saying you seem of have some knowledge of a niche area of the law that I lack and I would appreciate your assistance in filling this apparent lacuna in my knowledge base.

As for "threatening to force a sale of the unit", does that not seem a bit extreme as a first salvo over an illegally-parked fridge? When you sat on what you call a "condo board" (known for some decades in BC as the "strata council"), did you ever do that?

I would think you'd be hard pressed to find a lawyer willing to pen such a threat. Most lawyers learn that you never threaten anything you do not intend to actually do. So, to force a sale, what would ordinarily be expected would be, in brief compass: to have in place a properly-enacted bylaw prohibiting fridges etc. on balconies. In case of a violation, a warning and cease and desist letter should issue from the strata corporation manager or the strata council. Then there would come the levying of a fine, if such be contemplated by the bylaw. Let's say a fine of $x for every day of violation. When the fines have gone unpaid, then time to file a lien against the title to the strata lot in the Land Title Office. Then apply for judgment on the lien. Then apply for a sale, which may or may not be granted. The whole tedious (and costly) process is captured fairly well in this BC Court of Appeal judgment:

Strata Plan LMS 307 v. Krusoczki, 2006 BCCA 154


So, returning to your question:



With kcowan's indulgence, permit me to answer. The condo board does not "simply" do it because it would be a dumb idea, assuming some lawyer could be put up to it.
Mukhang Pera, we have discussed before the difference between what the law says and what can actually be done, whether legally actionable or not. Do you remember a thread in which 'name and shame' was discussed?

The strata board or the strata management company can write a letter whether directly or through a lawyer threatening ANYTHING they want to. It doesn't have to be legally actionable. The unit owner may or may not realize that. A copy of the letter can be posted in a common area of the building for everyone to read and know who is not complying with the rules intended for the common good.

As for getting a lawyer to send the letter, be real, you can get a lawyer to write anything you want if you pay enough. They may tell you it isn't actionable but that is irrelevant.

You as a lawyer have a bias towards what is legal or not. I have no such bias. I am only interested in getting a desired action accomplished by whatever means necessary. When someone is not complying, I have no compunction about playing dirty pool. They will reap what they sow.

Re the tow truck. I am not going to go looking for a legal answer. I am simply telling you what a towing company told us when we talked to them about towing. They may have got it wrong legally, who knows, who cares. The point is they said what they said which was enough to have the strata board decide that avenue was not open. Towing might have left the strata liable. So writing a letter about a forced sale was a simple answer. Takes up 5 minutes in a strata council meeting. If it got the desired action that was all that was required. If it did not, then another means would need to be employed. Park your Bentley in visitor parking while you are home having lunch and come out to find it has been 'keyed'. What is your legal recourse? Or if that offends your sensibilities too much, just shove a potato into the exhaust pipe. Do you know what that will do? The car will not be able to start and until you find and remove the potato, you're stuck. That was an old trick we used to play on our high school teachers.

Got a real problem with multiple freezers on balconies as jcowan suggests, cut of electricity to the balconies for a day or two. An excuse to do so would not be hard to find. 'The strata is having new ground fault interrupt outlets installed on all unit balconies. This work will be carried out over the course of the month of X.'

'All balconies are common property and the strata has the right to inspect and do work on them at any time. Access cannot be denied but being aware of security concerns some residents may have, our strata management company will have a representative present at all times to let the electrician in to do the necessary work and to remain with the electrician while the work is carried out. At no time will the electrician be left alone in your unit.'

Now Mukhang pera, every balcony is going to be seen and what is on it is going to be seen. If there is a freezer, the outlet will be disconnected but unfortunately the electrician is going to find he has run out of the new outlets to be installed. He will have to come back later to do that. Say tomorrow, or the day after maybe.

How legally when all your food spoils, are you going to react when the freezer was there illegally in the first place? You could remove the food to somewhere else but when and for how long? You will not have any way of knowing when your unit is going to have the work done other than in a long time period. Gonna move your food out for a month?

The problem most condo boards have in my opinion is that they listen to lawyers too much. Yes, they need to know what they can legally do and not do but they do not have to limit themselves to that. Those that are not complying are not limiting themselves to what they can legally do, why should the condo board? There are all kinds of creative ways to go about making it easier for someone to comply than to not comply.
 

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I recall very well the past discussion LTA.

Your statement thus is some of the silliest crap you have as yet come up with:

As for getting a lawyer to send the letter, be real, you can get a lawyer to write anything you want if you pay enough. They may tell you it isn't actionable but that is irrelevant.

You may denigrate the legal profession until the cows come home, but it is time for you to "be real". Your words are simply a slur against the profession in general and just plain wrong. No lawyer I know would ever write "anything you want". You have very likely never worked in a regulated profession. You worked in sales where there is no governing body to prevent slimy sales tactics from being employed. In the law profession, even if you find a lawyer who is a low flyer, with no moral or ethical standards, "writing anything you want if you pay enough" can very quickly get said lawyer in hot water with the governing body, in BC, the Law Society of BC. That's leaving aside the whole matter of reputation and credibility. Those mean everything in the law business. Not something bought and sold.

I meant what I said, as well, when I said it is bad form (and I have not seen it done) to write on a client's behalf, threatening legal action of any sort, unless I had instructions to follow through. It strikes at the heart of the credibility and efficacy of the profession as a whole if lawyers are dashing off idle threats in writing, and it comes to be seen that such missives are lawyers' mere puffery that can be ignored with impunity.

While I would never choose to own a condo, that goes double for one where you are a member of the strata council. Your attitude is a bit scary. You believe in using canons to kill flies. It seems you love a fight and playing dirty, as you say, to win. But, in the end, what has been won?

Let's look at the examples you mention. First, the fridge/freezer on balcony issue. You propose cutting electricity to all balconies for a day or two. In short, punish all residents for the sins of one. Or have the strata corporation spend the owners' money on an electrician to attend and pull the plug on one freezer and teach the miscreant a lesson by means of a freezer full of spoiled food.

The parking issue you see as being addressed in multiple ways, take your choice: (1) Having a lawyer write threatening a forced sale. Already commented up. Plus it comes at a cost to the strata corporation and involves a lot of time, when the visitors' parking should be freed up with dispatch. (2) Having the offending vehicle "keyed". Nothing like resorting to a breach of the criminal law (mischief) to achieve one's goals. Much safer to do that than to call a tow truck. If the insured towing company damages the vehicle, oh my, the issue of "liability" rears its ugly head. On the other hand, what liability could possibly flow from keying a vehicle? Similarly, the owner of the spoiled food will, almost certainly, not think to seek redress against the strata corporation and individual council members for the unlawful resort to self-help you would propose. Is that what you think? You are free to enjoy an anarchical holiday without repercussions?

LTA, I would ask if you have considered taking an anger management course. You come across as harbouring a good measure of bottled-up hostility. What you reveal in your words about proper conduct for a strata council is a bit hair-raising. You seem to delight in coming up with vindictive and illegal means of getting things done. In all of the examples given, would it not be a course of prudence to simply seek to have a quiet word with those who breach strata corporation rules? Even before letter-writing (and I don't mean lawyers' letters).

Once upon a time, I rented a furnished condo in Vancouver's West End. I sought out such a thing because I planned to stay only 3-6 months. It turned out to be more than 6 years. There were 120 units in a 20-storey building. I never saw any skirmishing over bylaw/rules enforcement. Matters were usually dealt with after a fashion of reasonable people dealing with reasonable people. It paid dividends to take a soft-peddle approach and assume that reason would be met with reason. Seemed to work well while I was there.

On the odd occasion, the strata council would post on the notice board, and sometimes in the elevators, a notice to the effect that a breach of a certain rule seemed to be taking place and encouraging all to fall in line. Sometimes the resident manager would speak to an individual. I got that treatment. There was a rule about keeping nothing in your underground parking stall, except your car. Over time, some folks placed things like spare tires, maybe a tote or such, against the wall and it would be hidden when their car was parked in front. That was going on when I moved in, so I put some things behind my car that would otherwise have been stored in my trunk. One day, while walking away from my car, the manager made a bit of small talk with me and added, sort of as an "oh, by the way", a polite reminder that the rule was now being enforced and would I be a good sport and store nothing in my stall. It was a reasonable request. Some stalls were starting to look rather messy and the decision to enforce the rule was reasonable. Even if I thought it unreasonable, unless I wanted to attend a strata corporation meeting and lobby for a rule change, was I really going to argue that I had some special right to ignore the rule?

What would you do in the parking stall storage case LTA? Maybe, under cover of darkness, resort to self-help, teach 'em a lesson, and remove all of the offending chattels to the dumpster? It seems to me that your chosen way of handling things, displaying a good measure of hostility, is likely to beget hostility in return and is unlikely to foster peace and harmony in the strata community.
 

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MP, your stories are always welcome. In our building, there are many seniors have trouble gauging the distance of their hood so the old tire would prevent front-end damage. But they were judged a fire hazard and all removed.

Then they would take shopping carts up to their apartments with groceries and then leave them in the hallway. There was only one outlet on the balcony so they would run an extension cord from inside to power both the fridge and chest freezer. They would leave strollers on the balcony and sometimes suitcases. Some even installed satellite dishes (and more recently OTA antennas) on their balconies.

I think building management is a tiresome task.
 

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In my experience the biggest problem with condo board members is they don't have the gumption or guts to deal with the difficult issues, nor the tenacity to continue with an issue until it is resolved. Property managers often won't work issues through to resolution unless prodded by the Board, so it's a vicious circle. Many residents will try to ignore the rules and management directives, which plays into the condo corp's hands. And the worst offenders don't relent when you try to embarrass them, rather they wear it as a badge of honour.

But to the issues raised, the condo lawyers we had would not stoop to issuing any correspondence that was not in compliance with the applicable legislation or the condo's governing documents. But there are very persuasive ways to deal with things within the laws. (I refer to ON, as it is the province with which I am familiar). For any of the issues mentioned, if they are contrary to the condo act or the rules / bylaws / declaration, contact the unit owner, point out the rules and request they comply, follow up in writing if the first contact was oral, and give a date by which the malfeasance must be rectified. If not corrected by that deadline, send another letter, stating if not corrected by x date it will be referred to the condo lawyer. Then the lawyer sends a letter, with notification that they now owe the lawyer's fee, which legal fees incurred enforcing the rules can be collected in the same manner as condo fees. And if they don't pay within 90 days then the corp can register a lien against the property that will cover up to 90 days prior fees and all future fees related to the same non-compliance. And the lien search and registration process costs about $1k IIRC. If they ignore that, lawyer sends another letter giving a deadline after which application will be made to the court to enforce compliance. And in such case, a lien search must be done to ensure that all lienholders get notified. This gets expensive fast. So they easily burn up a few months AirBnB revenue, and realize the condo corp is diligent, persistent, and has the full force of the law behind it (real lawyers, not the blustering boobs imagined by some). Taken to conclusion, the sheriff arrives to evict the property owner, the manager changes the lock and begins the power of sale process. This is what LTA envisioned, but he/she left out about 95% of the steps. In the case that there is a mortgage, the property manager usually first notifies the mortgagee, which then usually pays the condo all outstanding fees and adds such to the mortgage, since banks don't like someone else having a higher lien on the property. All this is especially fun if there is a tenant, since the tenant causes the landlord money and heartburn.

Some might say this takes a horrible amount of time, but it's actual an efficient method if the property manager and board know their jobs. Plus if you have to follow the legal method after the bullying / blustering / embarrassing / empty threat method fails, it puts the condo corp in a weak position for court enforcement since they used their authority inappropriately against the "little guy" property owner. Knowledge is power.
 

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I don't think most people realize just how common things like those kcowan lists in #46 are. Nor do they realize just how thankless a task being on a condo board often is.

Imagine yourself, bringing groceries up in a shopping cart (stolen from a supermarket presumably) to your unit and then leaving the shopping cart in the hallway as kcowan relates. Who would do that? Well the answer is lots of people would. Who do they think is going to remove the shopping cart and to where? They don't CARE.

Regarding parking spaces and storage, I once arrived home and drove into the underground garage where I found a guy up on a ladder drilling into the concrete ceiling of the garage. When I asked what he was doing, his response was something like, 'I'm installing anchor points so that I can keep my kayak hoisted up over our car.'

He said if as if it was no big deal. I pointed to a fire sprinkler and one of the fluorescent light fixtures and asked him what he thought it would be like if everyone did something similar and access to the sprinklers and light fixtures was made difficult if no impossible. By the look on his face I could tell he had no clue about how his doing something that he saw as affecting no one else, could be interpreted by others as giving them the right to do something similar and that if he were allowed to get away with it, others WOULD take it as an indication they could do something else and WOULD do so. His only concern was what HE wanted, not what was best for all when living in a communal setting which a condo is.

So I told him, you can't drill into the ceiling, you can't hang a kayak and there is nowhere that you can in fact store a kayak in the building. His response to that predictably was, 'well how am I supposed to store my kayak?' Again, all about HIM and HIS problem. I told him that was his problem to work out an answer to.

Two days later, another resident who understood why it would not be allowed told me quietly that the guy was going around moaning to anyone who would listen that I was a real ******* and should be kicked off the board. He was canvassing for anyone interested in signing a petition to that effect. He still didn't see what he wanted to do as being wrong in any way obviously.

If you want to understand how some people will behave in a condo and as GreakLaker suggests, 'take it as a badge of honour' to break the rules, you have to BE on a condo board to see it. There are some people that you can approach for a quiet word when they innocently break a rule because they haven't paid attention to reading the rules carefully before they do something that if they owned a detached house they wouldn't need to think twice about doing.

There are some that resist but after a verbal warning and perhaps a letter, will grudgingly comply although they will refer to the condo board as 'condo nazis' and complain to all and sundry how ridiculous the board is and it is 'time some reasonable people were elected at the next Annual General Meeting.' NONE of them however ever volunteer to be on the board.

Then there are the worst offenders who as GreakLaker suggests, with whom you have to go the whole 9 yards of the process to remove them from the building. OR you have to find a way to discourage them that falls outside the rules but gets the desired action from them.

I realize not all condo board members are likely to be willing to take 'unconventional' steps to gain compliance but I am not one of them. Consider what you yourself would do if confronted with someone such as the guy parking in visitors every day while he was home for lunch. The first time I approached him about it, I tried 'reasonable argument' about it being for visitors and that we had limited visitor parking available. How would he feel if his visitors could not get parked, etc.' His response was along the lines of, 'what's the big deal, there's still an empty visitor space there' and he walked away into the building.

Some people will blatantly and in your face, refuse to comply. For me anyway, when they do that, they will reap what they sow. What I actually did with the guy who was parking in visitors was have our property gardener park his riding mower trailer behind the car one day and go off for his lunch hour. Message sent.

Playing by the rules is what I would always prefer to do but if the other party will not play by the rules then the gloves come off.
 

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....not just in stores like Ikea but in ALL stores and in all public areas. Alas, you cannot fix stupid.

I really like Ikea AAA and AA batteries for my electronics-especially remote controls. Inexpensive and seem to outlast other brands.
Ian, are these rechargeable batteries, or the 'regular' kind?
 

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Discussion Starter #50
I like the dark chocolate bars they sell at Ikea, I think they were only $2 each, product of Spain, great quality.

The LED bulbs they sell (Ikea brand) are also unbelievably good value, and seem to be good quality.
 

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I like their meatballs and lingonberry sauce.

I don't find their batteries last as long contrary to ian's opinion. However, the batteries are so cheap it doesn't matter if you have to replace them more often. The problem I have found with the batteries is that I go to Ikea so rarely, I tend to buy a lot of them at one time and they can go bad (start leaking) before I get around to using them a year or whatever later.
 

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Alkaline batteries are known as alkaleaks in some circles. Some do have a tendency to leak especially if stored long-term in a device that is rarely used like an emergency flashlight. They have high internal resistance so they don't perform well in hi current devices like video games, digital cameras and flashlights. I generally use them in low cost, low current devices.

NiMh rechargeables are my go-to batteries in most devices. New designs like Eneloop, Ladda and Amazon Basics are low self-discharge so will retain most of their charge for a couple of years. I use them in high current devices like flashlights and my camera flash. Once they get a few years old and don't hold a charge as well I downcycle them to low current devices like clocks and remote controls. I have Eneloops that are over 10 years old and still perform OK.

For long-term storage like an emergency stash, Energizer Ultimate Lithiums are powerful and long lasting, although very expensive. They are also cold resistant and work well in cold temps so great for a flashlight in a car or unheated garage. Note that Ultimate Lithiums are non-rechargeable 1.5 volt, not the same as Lithium Ion rechargeables commonly used in tablets, laptops and mobile phones.
 

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We did a grocery pickup yesterday with PC Express. Never a problem.

While waiting for them to bring out our grocery order, I was watching the people going and coming. The parking lot was quite full overall. There are a couple of dozen big box stores all together and one large parking lot. At 2.30pm on a Wednesday there were a lot of people out shopping in all those stores. I would say less than a 1/4 were wearing masks and there were people of all ages. I saw people coming out of the supermarket with just one or two items in their hands.

Recently, there has been a lot of coverage and talk about masks. At the same time, there has been less and less coverage of other preventive measures and their importance. I think a lot of people are taking their eye off the ball and acting as if things were 'normal' or nearly so. That is simply not the reality. We are nowhere near the end of this pandemic. Overall, new daily cases in Canada have started increasing again.

People need to re-focus on the basics. Stay home if possible. Maintain distancing if you must go out. Wash hands often. Limit interactions including shopping, as much as possible. Wear a mask. With all the focus on the mask issue, the others have started to be forgotten.
 

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Are those separate items, or do the meatballs come swimming in lingonberry sauce? I grew up in a Norwegian household with both, but never together.
The lingonberry comes as a dollop on the side of the plate, akin to say a turkey dinner with cranberry sauce on the side. Do they not serve them together that way in Norway? Perhaps, IKEA has adapted this menu item to appeal to Canadian tastes, who knows.
 

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Lingonberry jam was always in our house and used as such...on toast, etc. I have had reindeer stew in Norway, with lingonberries simply sprinkled on top. I do not recall my mother much using it as a condiment with meat. I think it may have taken the place of cranberries with turkey from time to time. She made really good Norwegian meatballs, but not served with tyttebær (what my parents always called lingonberry). I'll have to try the Ikea variety if ever I get to Vancouver again (or maybe there's an Ikea in Victoria).

Anyway, hearing of tyttebær brings back memories. Not often heard of in Canada. Kinda' like gjetost (goat milk cheese from Norway) or torskerogn (cod roe) - nice when you can find it.
 

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We did our first online stockup yesterday (We began our 14 day isolation last Friday and had inital stock from friends). Good web ordering system (Fresh St Market), shows when a substitution in made, any stockouts deducted from the total, delivered to the door the next day. $10 for delivery.

Now on to Everything Wine...
 

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Anyway, hearing of tyttebær brings back memories. Not often heard of in Canada. Kinda' like gjetost (goat milk cheese from Norway) or torskerogn (cod roe) - nice when you can find it.
Gjetost (or what they sell here under that name) is quite odd. I thought it was some kind of soy cheese.

Any smoked mackerel? My grandfather (Dutch) still buys that from time to time.
 

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Gjetost (or what they sell here under that name) is quite odd. I thought it was some kind of soy cheese.

Any smoked mackerel? My grandfather (Dutch) still buys that from time to time.
Gjetost ("gyet" meaning goat and "ost" meaning cheese) is a bit of an acquired taste sort of thing. The Ski Queen brand is the one usually found in Canada. About $16 for the small block shown in the pic. It shows up once in awhile at the Superstore and at Save on Foods in Campbell River.

Lots of mackerel in Norway. I have caught mackerel there using simple handline trolling with plastic worms. But smoked I do not recall in our home or in relatives' homes in Norway. Now pickled herring (sild), that's another story! My aunt in Bergen made the best!
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