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Discussion Starter #21
"If you are interested in work with me or for more detailed information (more graphs proving my playing history, my screen name in poker world, etc), just send me a private message. If you can, post in this thread: "pm sent"".
If not, just scroll down.

That is the solution!
 

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So, you seem to be getting annoyed with the fact that you aren't being taken seriously...

You are posting on a financial forum, where people generally go to get solid investment advice, a post which basically says...

I'm really good at playing poker, I've been playing for three years, I can even provide proof (which could of course be faked). Of course, I've been winning a lot, but I don't have the money needed to go to the next level, even though I'm really good and won't lose your money trust me.

You don't seem to see how that's not going to work here.

There are several people on this board who've been playing poker a lot longer than you, some of them are even quite successful at it and fund their vacations from the proceeds, so there are some who do understand the potential of which you speak...however, I doubt evennthey would seriously consider "investing" in an anonymous poster who "claims" to be good and can prove it with "charts and graphs", but not money.

Sorry, but I can tell you you probably won't get any better response than being treated like a scam artist looking for a victim. If you were truly good, you wouldn't be asking for money on an anonymous board.

Now, I'm not saying you aren't what you claim, but your method of soliciting investors is just opening yourself up to what you are getting, ridicule. The more you insist on promoting this, the more you'll illicit the wrong response.

If you're truly as good as you say, and there are literally thousand of people just like you in that regard, why not enter some of those "free" or cheap buy ins where the winner gets a free trip to the wsop? Better yet, post your real name, enter a tourney where the information is public and, when you place in he money (information which can be verified by a third party), come back and ask for investors.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
So, stop promoting my thread! If you're not the right person, just go away. What is so hard to understand?
 

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@pereira: Why do you need money from "investors"? The way I read your original post, it appears what you need is a loan.

If someone does invest his hard earned money, what exactly is that person investing in? Are we just giving you the money for you to gamble? How would we know that, as investors, we are not feeding into someone's gambling addiction? What is your way of ensuring accountability with our money? If we were to no longer support your poker playing, what is the process of getting our money back?

I would like to quote Kevin O'Leary by saying that, as an investor, I would like to make money. Why should we invest in you rather than a TD stock where we get about 4% annual dividend on a quarterly basis? In essence, what is our incentive to invest with you?
 

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This is common in golf and poker.

If you watched the world series of poker last week Cliff Joeshy finished 3rd he was a backer of Joe Cada that won it all 4-5 years ago.

Common in big time snooker.
 

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Imagine walking into a financial advisor's office and answering the question, "What is your appetite for risk?" with, "I once wired a guy I've never met 500 bucks to play poker with because he signed up to a financial forum and said he needed money."

It would be worth giving this guy $500 just so you could do that. :D
 

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This is common in golf and poker.

If you watched the world series of poker last week Cliff Joeshy finished 3rd he was a backer of Joe Cada that won it all 4-5 years ago.

Common in big time snooker.
Would be easier to keep a poker face with other peoples money.

Across the board is more money won by those backing the poker players then is lost by the poker players? Are poker players paying for the cost of the tournament or sponsors paying the cost as well as putting money into the pot ?

Across the board If more money is being lost by those backing poker players then is being made I would not be a backer. It would be crazy to go into business where statistics indicates odds are more money would be lost then made.

If more money is being made across the board then is being lost by backing poker players then it is a net positive on average for those backing poker. If so what are the statistics ? Though I m not in. I do not gamble only put money on the table when odds are with me. Speculate no gamble, with understanding of risk/reward & odds
 

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Discussion Starter #28
@pereira: Why do you need money from "investors"? The way I read your original post, it appears what you need is a loan.

If someone does invest his hard earned money, what exactly is that person investing in? Are we just giving you the money for you to gamble? How would we know that, as investors, we are not feeding into someone's gambling addiction? What is your way of ensuring accountability with our money? If we were to no longer support your poker playing, what is the process of getting our money back?

I would like to quote Kevin O'Leary by saying that, as an investor, I would like to make money. Why should we invest in you rather than a TD stock where we get about 4% annual dividend on a quarterly basis? In essence, what is our incentive to invest with you?
Hi leeder. A loan is not the best option because what i really don't need, as a poker player, is a stressed life (even if it is a small amount) and the loan doesn't serve me in the long time. Worth it to say that i play poker along time, but never professionally. Actually, now, my intention is to play professionaly and grow up in the limits, of course only after i prove myself that i'm beating the current limit. So a backer is the best option for several reasons, one of them because the variance that i can take in short term.

Fortunately i don't have addiction problems and i don't treat the poker like gambling. By the way, you believe it or not, i never put one cent in a casino, of course excluding in poker. Like i said in my original post, in this years that i was playing while i was doing other things, i always tried to do the thing correctly and looking for help with the more experienced players, in terms of coaching and staking. I played staked before by two backers well known in world poker comunity. Work with a team and develop our game is the best that we can take these agreements. Both backers can vouch me. I always was professional with transfers, easy to comunicate with and we just finished our agreement for specific reasons, like they don't stake in sites that i can play.

By the way of money transitions, usually we work with ewallets because they are easy to work with and the faster option for withdraws and deposits. The ewallets can to be associated with account banks, probably you have this knowleadge.

About the incentives to invest in, lets take an example. The backer bankrolls me the full amount for my cash games. Lets say 500$. I will play 7-8h/d, 4-5d/w depending if i will study the game more or less. Nl25, 6-max tables (6 players) and around 4-6 tables at the same time. In each table is given around 80 hands per hour, so i will play min 40k hands per month. A winrate of 10 big blinds per 100 hands is a really nice win rate in cash games. Lets assume that i will win 5 big blinds/100 hands.
5*0.25 = 1.25$/100hands, 0.0125$/hand | 40000*0.0125 = 500$ | 500*0.4 = 200$. The backer takes 40% and the player 60% of the profits.
This is the expected value in long run. But variance happens. Of course sometimes the players experiment periods of time downswinging and upswinging, so 20 buy ins is the minimum amount for a bankroll. And for this reason, the usual agreements are done for a minimum period of time or nºhands played.


A minimum posts are required for post images but i think i will provide my statistical info in some hours.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
This is common in golf and poker.

If you watched the world series of poker last week Cliff Joeshy finished 3rd he was a backer of Joe Cada that won it all 4-5 years ago.

Common in big time snooker.
Thanks for understand me ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #30
Would be easier to keep a poker face with other peoples money.

Across the board is more money won by those backing the poker players then is lost by the poker players? Are poker players paying for the cost of the tournament or sponsors paying the cost as well as putting money into the pot ?

Across the board If more money is being lost by those backing poker players then is being made I would not be a backer. It would be crazy to go into business where statistics indicates odds are more money would be lost then made.

If more money is being made across the board then is being lost by backing poker players then it is a net positive on average for those backing poker. If so what are the statistics ? Though I m not in. I do not gamble only put money on the table when odds are with me. Speculate no gamble, with understanding of risk/reward & odds
I think this depend of in who the backers invest, good or not, with references or not, scams in the past. And if they provide coaching or not. In general i think they profit in long run if they work well and do the homework.
 

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I'm actually playing with the b'ys tonight!!! Few beers....hopefully a moose burger ....lotta bs goin'on.
Out in da shed.
I'm bringing $30. Wish me luck!!!
 

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I'm actually playing with the b'ys tonight!!! Few beers....hopefully a moose burger ....lotta bs goin'on.
Out in da shed.
I'm bringing $30. Wish me luck!!!
Hey, good luck! How 'bout I send you $30 and I get 40% of your winnings? Or you can pay me in moose burgers!
 

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This is common in golf and poker.

If you watched the world series of poker last week Cliff Joeshy finished 3rd he was a backer of Joe Cada that won it all 4-5 years ago.

Common in big time snooker.
I guess pointing out that this backing usually occurs with a "known enitity", by people who have an intimate understanding of each other, would probably just point out my *misunderstanding* of this lucrative opportunity.

A buddy of mine set up a local poker tournament with a fairly small buy in. The winner of the tourney got a buy in to the wsop the funds (supplied by the buy ins from the tournament). He figured he was the best player, so he'd win. As a bonus, all players in the tourney got a split of any money won at the wsop. If he didn't win the tournament, someone else went. He's run the tournament for several years.

To me, that sounds like a better "investment". I get to have some fun, the best player represents the group...but I'm sure I completely missed an opportunity here...
 

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Discussion Starter #34 (Edited)
I guess pointing out that this backing usually occurs with a "known enitity", by people who have an intimate understanding of each other, would probably just point out my *misunderstanding* of this lucrative opportunity.

A buddy of mine set up a local poker tournament with a fairly small buy in. The winner of the tourney got a buy in to the wsop the funds (supplied by the buy ins from the tournament). He figured he was the best player, so he'd win. As a bonus, all players in the tourney got a split of any money won at the wsop. If he didn't win the tournament, someone else went. He's run the tournament for several years.

To me, that sounds like a better "investment". I get to have some fun, the best player represents the group...but I'm sure I completely missed an opportunity here...
Just a Guy, i think you are not seeing the thing in the right way.

Firstly you are talking about ocasional investment. You play a tournament where the winner or the best player will play an mtt in wsop. I can´t realise how a professional player can play only one tournament per year and to live with the money that he wins. This after he splits the profit with the friends. More, even if you and your friends choose set up 70 tournaments during one year and in the end the winners or winner go to play the full shedule of wsop during years, i have a lot of doubts that you will win money. Of course you can win, but of course you cannot too. Tournaments are a super swinging game when played in a small sample. And yes, 2k tournaments is a really small sample. That way you are like gambling some tournaments due the game's nature, even if you are a good player.

Secondly, in your first post you talked about if i am truly as good as i say i should enter in a tournament with other guys and prove it. Actually i never said i am the best player in the world. I know i am better than a lot people, but of course i am worst than a lot of them. I just want to do this and tomorrow to be better than today. It is impossible accurate if a guy is a good player in just one tournament. He can to be the best player and to be the first eliminated.

Thirdly you talked about charts and graphs but no money as a proof. Of course the charts and the graphs are the real proof, not the money that i eventual have or not in my account bank. In a evolved world, all statistical info about poker players can to be public on the internet. The player cannot to change that information, just hides it and in some sites it is not hidden for default. You said your friend figured he was the best player but, how he figured out that? I don't know if your friend won or not money in wsop but, even if he had won the main event for millions of dolars, i and the other players just would give him the credit that he eventualy deserves if we know your nicknames and your history. In last week was played the final table of main event of wsop and the champion of the world at this moment is a baccarat player. Probably he is not the best player that played the main event.

By the way, in my original post i said i'm looking for a cash game deal, not for tournaments. And for play professionaly, not for fun but... i gave my view about the things.
 

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You know nothing about the players involved. Several of them are actually professional players, who make a living playing the game. You assume that you're the only knowledgeable person on this forum. I just described a way one person arranged to achieve his goal of playing in the wsop without begging others for money. I never meant to say he was the best player in the world, I meant he figured he was the best player in the tournament he arranges every year. The wsop only has one event that he wanted to enter. if he can't beat a group of good players, then he knows he's not good enough to play in the wsop. He arranges the tournament every year because he knows he can have an off day.

Earlier, you were completely oblivious to the comments about how on-line poker can be rigged by the hosting company. Not a good sign from a whannabe "expert". You may want to google some of the frauds that occurred with on-line poker.

If you don't think charts and graphs can be rigged, you're also showing your ignorance. You may want to look at how some on-line gaming sites actually allowed weak players to win more at the low level so that they'd play for higher stakes and lose more.

There are also plenty of tournaments at lower levels. I know several people who make a good living playing many low cost tournaments. Larger groups of low cost add up to a pretty big pot.

The fact that you won't risk your credit rating seems to imply you're not very confident in your own abilities.

As someone who has actually made money, let me tell you the added stress of having you're own money on the line is the best incentive to succeed. It was a real driving force for most successful people I know. There's a lot less to lose when it's not your own money.

You continue to look for only your solution to your problem, you ignore all other suggestions as not understanding. If you continue on this path, don't be surprised if you are continually ridiculed if you persist in "bumping" the topic. The fact that you picked the wrong place (this forum) to post your inquiry shows you don't really research very well...a final reason why you probably won't find any positive feedback.
 

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persistent little guy, isn't he?

at least his spelling is good, i don't believe he's relying on spellcheckr.

grammar not bad either

.
 

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My broker advised me to be cautious of investments that involve playing cards.


[Edit: I have nothing against gambling and I understand some people are really good at poker, perhaps to the point they can skew the odds in their favour. I'm only in this thread for the laughs and one-liners. Good luck to you, pereira. May the spirit of Kenny Rogers guide you on which hands to play aggressively.]
 

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pereira, I will be able to give you $1,000,000 to begin, and more in the long term which I expect, as you have pointed out, will reduce the variance... Please provide your international Western Union account # for immediate transfer.
 

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Discussion Starter #39
You know nothing about the players involved. Several of them are actually professional players, who make a living playing the game. You assume that you're the only knowledgeable person on this forum. I just described a way one person arranged to achieve his goal of playing in the wsop without begging others for money. I never meant to say he was the best player in the world, I meant he figured he was the best player in the tournament he arranges every year. The wsop only has one event that he wanted to enter. if he can't beat a group of good players, then he knows he's not good enough to play in the wsop. He arranges the tournament every year because he knows he can have an off day.
I'm sure i am more knowledgeable about poker than you. Your words don't make any sense and you didn't understand the fundamental questions in my last post. You are just trying to do other guys believe in what you think you know. You use the argument that your friend to do a thing for achieve his goal, like if i needed to do the same thing. If al least that thing proved something. Two years ago i played a tournament where i made more than 10k x the buy in that i paied. Do you believe? I don't care, i can prove it. So? I am a good player for that? The answer is not! By the way i never did assumptions about your friends' skills. And if there are a lot of sucessfull players here, like you said, they are not showing their displeasure and not contradict me.

Earlier, you were completely oblivious to the comments about how on-line poker can be rigged by the hosting company. Not a good sign from a whannabe "expert". You may want to google some of the frauds that occurred with on-line poker.
I will assume you live in the past century and you don't know nothing about RNG. But i talked about hosting companys? I don't remember!

If you don't think charts and graphs can be rigged, you're also showing your ignorance. You may want to look at how some on-line gaming sites actually allowed weak players to win more at the low level so that they'd play for higher stakes and lose more.
Wtf are you talking about? Graphs rigged? By gambling sites? Gambling sites don't provide historical graphs, just hand historys! There are specific sites for this. Do you know sharkscope? Go there and provide me a rigged graph. "On-line gaming sites actually allowed weak players to win more at the low level so that they'd play for higher stakes and lose more" - This phrase is epic.

There are also plenty of tournaments at lower levels. I know several people who make a good living playing many low cost tournaments. Larger groups of low cost add up to a pretty big pot.
And?

The fact that you won't risk your credit rating seems to imply you're not very confident in your own abilities.

As someone who has actually made money, let me tell you the added stress of having you're own money on the line is the best incentive to succeed. It was a real driving force for most successful people I know. There's a lot less to lose when it's not your own money.
Your assumption stays with you.



You continue to look for only your solution to your problem, you ignore all other suggestions as not understanding. If you continue on this path, don't be surprised if you are continually ridiculed if you persist in "bumping" the topic. The fact that you picked the wrong place (this forum) to post your inquiry shows you don't really research very well...a final reason why you probably won't find any positive feedback.
Actually this is not your concern.
 

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When I was a bartender, I met a professional magician once who held a yearly poker game with all his magician buddies. The idea was to cheat as much as possible- hidden cards, bottom dealing, stack decks, palming cards, you name it- fair game. If you could pull it off, more power to you and no hard feelings! It would have been fun to watch.
 
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