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I'm not clear on what your point is Just a Guy. The care sucks, we know that. So what do you suggest should be done about it? That is really what this thread is about. How would you suggest solving the problem?
Audit and post details.
Ontario does this, but the audits have never been adequate.

The local health unit audits restaurants, and posts letter grades, if you did this at homes, it might have an impact.
I won't eat at anything other than an A rated restaurant.

Third party audit systems,I bet nobody asks if the home meets any independantly audited standards.
Maybe if people demanded third party certification, rather than relying on the government, it could happen.
 

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One set of rules and standards instead of two different sets IMO would help in Ontario.


Cheers
I think the lack of visibility is an issue.

Also many of the government run homes are $47+holes as well. They need visible accountability.
 

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Sure ... but that's going to cost money.

My parents weren't typically complainers so my brother panicked when they complained about the food. He was ready to tear a strip off any staff he encountered. My sister said let's get details because I'm here regularly, often stay for supper with no prior notice and the food's been good. On direct questioning, they couldn't come up with examples of meals they didn't like.

Near as we could figure out - they were parroting the complaints of their table mates. These were farmers who wanted a specific diet. Boiled potatoes are fine but twice baked, fancy potatoes were crap, not fit for animals.


Later when the owning family retired, the home was sold to a group out of Montreal. Within a couple of weeks, there was 1/3 the staff to serve meals, the number of nurses was cut in half etc. The fees, went up.

Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter #25
Premier Ford has finally taken a real step to take over control where necessary of LTC homes.

So now, they can put a manager in place if warranted, REGARDLESS of whether the residence wants them to or not.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
The number of military personnel now infected in LTC homes has risen to 36 from 28 in Quebec and Ontario. There are 14 in Ontario and 22 in Quebec. The evidence of the inability to control the virus in LTC homes continues to mount.

We are no longer hearing how many new cases are still developing in LTC homes. They've just stopped telling us.

Now there is also another issue being highlighted due to the current heat wave in parts of Ontario and Quebec. Only 25% of individual rooms are air conditioned. The common practice in the past when there was a heat wave has been to move residents into common areas of the buildings where there is air conditioning. That option can't be done when you are trying to maintain distancing obviously. So we now face residents perhaps dying as a result of the hot weather in addition to those dying from the virus.
 

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We're running out of money to give everyone everything they want.
It is expensive to have isolated AC for every room, so they don't.

Nobody is proposing real solutions.
 

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It is the kind of lame excuses that are offered here that created the atrocious conditions in LTA homes.

The Canadian military is posting a report on the conditions of the LTA homes and it is very, very, very bad for the homes, workers and government.

There will be criminal investigations and the Ontario government has run out of excuses. If there were regular inspections they must have wore blindfolds, earbuds, and nose plugs while in the homes. The LTA homes are named and investigators will want to see proof of inspections.

The Trudeau government is going to publish the report and the **** is going to hit the fan.
 

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Holding the places accountable would be a good start. Bad food and abuse can be easily seen by anyone actually entering the buildings. The number of sedated patients is also impossible to hide, but there is no downside to a home doing these things as demand is much higher than beds. These places get away with it because there are no consequences to getting caught. So, in fact, they get worse because they can. I suggest we put politicians in an old age home for a month, then you’d get change.
 

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Discussion Starter #30

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662 LTA homes and 9 full inspections. Doug Ford is responsible and his excuses are pathetic.

In the last year of the previous Liberal government there were 600 inspections conducted.

Doug Ford's "restructuring plan" for LTA homes was to eliminate inspections and cut funding.

No government appointed friendly committtee. There must be a full public inquiry.
 

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Discussion Starter #32
662 LTA homes and 9 full inspections. Doug Ford is responsible and his excuses are pathetic.

In the last year of the previous Liberal government there were 600 inspections conducted.

Doug Ford's "restructuring plan" for LTA homes was to eliminate inspections and cut funding.

No government appointed friendly committtee. There must be a full public inquiry.
Yes I noticed today how he and Christine Elliott repeatedly avoided telling the truth about inspections since Ford came into office. She was also the Ombudsperson for LTC at one time.

But here's the reality. If you ask a question which has political consequences such as someone deciding not to vote for someone, you are not going to get a real answer and to expect otherwise is just stupid or very naive. No one is going to cut their own political throat no matter how many times they get asked a relavant question they will just dodge the question with the usual political babble.

Ford made it worse but he is not alone in having blame. Every political party, public health department and EVERY relation who has or has had relatives in these homes also shares the blame. Dwelling on the past or who should get cruxified is not SOLVING THE PROBLEM.

What we need to hear is EXACTLY what is going to be done to solve the problem. Not, 'everything is on the table' as Ford said today. When that answer is given, the next question should be, 'yes, but what are you doing TODAY to deal with the residents who are in these homes TODAY. It's fine to say there will be changes made in the future and it's not unreasonable to say it will take time to work out and implement them permanently but what is being done TODAY for the residents living there TODAY?'

I have not heard of one thing that is being done today other than bringing in the military who then had 36 (and counting) personnel get the virus. Clearly, that wasn't an improvement for anyone.
 

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What should happen is they should be audited, and given posted grades,just like restaurants.
What is measured, matters, and when you measure those criteria, they'll be incentivised to fix them.


Right now we don't objectively know what kind of care they provide. Lets fix that problem first.
 

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The question I have for all those who have family members in these homes or may have in the future, is what are YOU going to do about it?

I can only thank God that my parents never had to live in one of these homes. They both died in a hospital before they could get to the stage of living in such a place. I hope my wife and I do the same.
Yes MIL was in Extendicare in Guildwood for 8 years. We talked we tried we cried but nothing improved. In fact it got worse through retaliation of the staff. Fortunately no others were subject to that system, dieing at home or in the hospital. (FILs and second MIL)

Now any changes made will only affect us, although we are taking steps to avoid it if it becomes necessary.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
The military's report on the 23 homes they have been working in in Quebec is going to be released today. I expect it to be much the same.

To be fair, I expect such a report based on homes in any province would be much the same. It is a Canada wide problem and I agree with Jagmeet Singh who is again today calling for a national standard for nursing homes and an end to for profit nursing homes.
 
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