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Discussion Starter #1
So the cat is 'out of the bag' big time in regards to how we treat our seniors in Canada. While every Canadian has free access to medical care through our Provincial systems, that only extends to care by a doctor or in a hospital. Once a senior needs 'long term care' and is shunted out of their home or a hospital bed to a Long Term care nursing home whether public or private, they are no longer provided care under the Canada Health Act.

The fact that our treatment of seniors in these nursing homes is inadequate is not news to anyone who has looked into our system but just how bad it really is has now been forced into the view of the general public overall. Of all our Covid-19 deaths in Canada, 80% have been in LTC homes. What's more, if someone is in a private LTC have FOUR times as many deaths as in a public/municipal LTC.



There has long been an unspoken and unseen neglect of our seniors. Once you are no longer seen as productive but only a 'burden', no one wants to know about you other than your immediate family perhaps and that's if they're lucky.

We call ourselves civilized. That's a lie.

This entire system needs to be changed and should be a major issue in any upcoming election at any level of government. We need to get rid of private nursing homes ENTIRELY and we need all nursing homes to come under the Canada Health Act, just like ALL OTHER healthcare in Canada. We need adequately paid PROFESSIONALLY qualified staff at all levels, in full time jobs. Just like we expect to encounter whenever we need to interact with any other part of our healthcare system from our family doctor to our hospitals.

Regardless of political party, I will be voting for those who clearly state their plans for addressing this issue.
 

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Watch for the federal politicians that claim they will do something about it! Also watch for provincial politicians spouting about federal issues. These are common tactics for politicians because the average elector knows little about federal versus provincial clearly delineated responsibilities.
 

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There has long been an unspoken and unseen neglect of our seniors. Once you are no longer seen as productive but only a 'burden', no one wants to know about you other than your immediate family perhaps and that's if they're lucky.

We call ourselves civilized. That's a lie.
I guess my family is "lucky". We are taking care of our parents as they age...some are in assisted living and others are still on their own. Assisted living provides support but the kids must also do their share. Visit regularly and chip in at the very least.

For those who put their patents in a home and then just expect that the government will take care of everything until they gently pass away...well, I wish you good luck when you get old and your kids take the same attitude.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Watch for the federal politicians that claim they will do something about it! Also watch for provincial politicians spouting about federal issues. These are common tactics for politicians because the average elector knows little about federal versus provincial clearly delineated responsibilities.
It will have to be addressed both by the federal government and the provincial governments kcown, not just one or the other if that is what you were suggesting.

The Canada Health Act is federal and set the criteria that the provinces must meet to get federal funding for the province's healthcare system. So I expect to see the federal government make changes there to include very strict and detailed criteria that must be met for nursing homes.

The provinces will then have to meet those criteria and I expect to hear them saying that they will do so and provide sufficient public nursing homes to accommodate all of their senior citizens who need that care. I also expect the provinces in doing that (proving enough public nursing homes), will put most of the private homes out of business. The only private nursing homes I see continuing are the very top end homes but I also expect the provinces to enact regulations that force them to meet the same criteria as the public nursing homes do. ie. fully qualified and certified staff at all levels and in full time positions.
 

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There will be a reckoning when the virus is gone. Inquiries will look into government policy pre-pandemic.

The history is well documented in the media and it won't look very good for the Ford government.
 

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The problem is that nobody saved to pay for their care, and now everyone wants to be taken care of for free.

At our current 50% tax rate, we simply can't afford to provide all the services people want.
 

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Watch for the federal politicians that claim they will do something about it! Also watch for provincial politicians spouting about federal issues. These are common tactics for politicians because the average elector knows little about federal versus provincial clearly delineated responsibilities.
So, where does long term care fall into the clearly delineated responsibilities? I wouldn't consider it to be health care since not everyone in a long term care facility requires medical attention.
https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/pdf/const_e.pdf
 

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There will be a reckoning when the virus is gone. Inquiries will look into government policy pre-pandemic.

The history is well documented in the media and it won't look very good for the Ford government.

We're seeing a huge failure of the private healthcare system (care homes in Ontario). Private long-term care systems are not working. There needs to be stronger regulation and more uniform oversight and procedures.

Canada must put an end to privately owned long-term care homes: Singh

OTTAWA -- In light of numerous COVID-19 outbreaks at long-term homes across the country, NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh says Canada should put an end to privatized facilities and establish a universal framework for seniors care.

In an interview on CTV’s Question period airing Sunday, Singh says the government must look to bring long-term care under the Canada Health Act and make it federally regulated, while doing away with the private system all together.
 

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I remember reading articles last year saying LT Care homes were a growth industry and a good place to invest due to the changing demographics. So much for that....
 

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We're seeing a huge failure of the private healthcare system (care homes in Ontario). Private long-term care systems are not working. There needs to be stronger regulation and more uniform oversight and procedures.

Canada must put an end to privately owned long-term care homes: Singh
I don't think it's a public/private problem.
I think it's a complete lack of oversight.

Care for the elderly is also a complex issue, who pays, and when should they pay?

Also if there are no spots available, would you chose second rate care, or no care?
 

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... There has long been an unspoken and unseen neglect of our seniors. Once you are no longer seen as productive but only a 'burden', no one wants to know about you other than your immediate family perhaps and that's if they're lucky ...
From what I observed ... my parents received pretty much the same care as I received in the hospital.

Those in it for the pay cheque cut corners and those who were in it as a profession took extra care.

In either setting, being on one's own without an advocate dramatically changed what was discussed, what was done and addressing any gaps.


Don't get me wrong ... I'm all for improvements. I'm not convinced that being under the Health Care Act is a panacea that fixes everything without hard work and long term focus on the situation.


Cheers
 

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There will be a reckoning when the virus is gone. Inquiries will look into government policy pre-pandemic.

The history is well documented in the media and it won't look very good for the Ford government.
With the way people around me ignore their parents/those who are aging, I doubt much will change.

IAC, I'd rather have a long term fix than focus on johnny come lately as it's been a problem for decades.


Cheers
 

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The problem is that nobody saved to pay for their care, and now everyone wants to be taken care of for free ...
I don't think it's a public/private problem.
I think it's a complete lack of oversight ...
I'd have to check the differences between the LTC act and the Retirement Home Act.

From what I've observed of the staff cutting, it seems far more aggressive in the private homes. It reminds me of the corp I left where the bean counters said the quarterly numbers added up to cutting two staff, the manager said all the staff on the bench had been cut so that doing so would mean having to call someone in from a paying contract and the bean counters said "do it".

Some around here who cut staff are charging $5K a month yet somehow, don't need the staff they did even a year or two ago. And that's staff that's making at least 10% less than those working in a nursing home.


I remember reading articles last year saying LT Care homes were a growth industry and a good place to invest due to the changing demographics. So much for that....
.... Also if there are no spots available, would you chose second rate care, or no care?
There are likely going to be changes but unless kids/friends decide to take on people who would have gone to a retirement or nursing home - it will still grow.

How much is the fourteen year waiting list likely to shrink?


Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter #14
The problem is that nobody saved to pay for their care, and now everyone wants to be taken care of for free.

At our current 50% tax rate, we simply can't afford to provide all the services people want.
That response irks me. Why would you single out seniors as not having saved to pay for their care? Why do you not suggest that anyone having children should have to save to pay for their children's education? Let's divert the money we spend on free education and use it to provide senior care. How's that sound to you? Why should kids get a free education but seniors who have contributed for a lifetime get cast aside? Seniors don't want to be 'taken care of for free', they want to be taken care of in RETURN for what they have contributed to our society throughout their lives.

Or how about this solution, everyone should be expected to take care of their own parents, grandparents in their homes as was the cultural norm in most countries including Canada, in the past. Why should we allow people to say, 'I take care of me and my kids but my parents are their own or someone else's responsibility.'

To give you an example of how that would look, when I lived in Greece, if someone had a relative, even say a second cousin who needed a place to live and care, the family had the responsibility to insure they got the help they needed. If they did not provide for their extended family, they were seen as a failure by the cultural norms. In 7 years of living there, I never saw ONE homeless person living on the street. A family member HAD to take them in if they wanted to preserve their 'face'. We used to have 'family units' but today those do not extend to including seniors in a lot of families.
 

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That response irks me. Why would you single out seniors as not having saved to pay for their care?
Because it's a thread on long term care for seniors.

Why do you not suggest that anyone having children should have to save to pay for their children's education?
Because that would be off topic.

Let's divert the money we spend on free education and use it to provide senior care. How's that sound to you?
Shortsighted.

Why should kids get a free education but seniors who have contributed for a lifetime get cast aside?
I pay for my childs education.

Seniors don't want to be 'taken care of for free', they want to be taken care of in RETURN for what they have contributed to our society throughout their lives.
Ahh, the great "contribution".
They didn't save.
They put our governments massively into debt, and promised themselves big benefits that they never planned to pay for themselves.
I'm glad the government finally got around to fixing CPP, (in 1996), but the plan was to dump the cost on future generations.

The reality is governments and individuals have been spending beyond their current and future means for decades, and we're getting really screwed by it. I don't blame the individual seniors, many elderly people aren't financially literate, and simply trusted that the government was taking care of things.

This is no different than voters today, who aren't taking responsibility either.

None of this changes the fact that we can't afford to give everyone everything they want all the time.
 

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Full scale investigations need to be held, including criminal investigations where warranted. It is a criminal offense to deny the necessities of life.

Those profit seeking vultures who viewed nursing homes as government guaranteed cash bonanzas, should bear the consequences of their actions.
 

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Make long term care part of the CPP program. Raise contribution levels if necessary. Just get it done.
 

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It’s not a matter of money, I’ve been going to long term care places for decades...they try to optimize care as much as possible, and maximize profits. I’ve had relatives who’ve paid thousands of dollars each month out of pocket treated just as bad as people who didn’t pay anything.
if you are judged to be a problem, they put you on the ”screaming ward” and drug you into submission. The care workers do the minimum required to keep their jobs, not care wise, employment wise. Often patients have bed sores, are abused etc. They are breeding grounds for diseases and are worse than prisons many times for thee patients.
Food is colour coded brown is “meat”, white is “potatoes”, orange or green iS the “veggies”.
id never want to go into one given a choice.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
It’s not a matter of money, I’ve been going to long term care places for decades...they try to optimize care as much as possible, and maximize profits. I’ve had relatives who’ve paid thousands of dollars each month out of pocket treated just as bad as people who didn’t pay anything.
if you are judged to be a problem, they put you on the ”screaming ward” and drug you into submission. The care workers do the minimum required to keep their jobs, not care wise, employment wise. Often patients have bed sores, are abused etc. They are breeding grounds for diseases and are worse than prisons many times for thee patients.
Food is colour coded brown is “meat”, white is “potatoes”, orange or green iS the “veggies”.
id never want to go into one given a choice.
I'm not clear on what your point is Just a Guy. The care sucks, we know that. So what do you suggest should be done about it? That is really what this thread is about. How would you suggest solving the problem?
 
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