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I don't think it's due to lack of available workers.

In my experience, the compensation is not enough. Not to say people aren't working, but people are hopping around. Nobody is loyal. There are many people "between jobs" as they look for something better.
I agree. The direction companies have gone in the last 30 years teaches people there is no point (no reward) for being loyal.

When there's a downturn, they immediately lay off people. The benefits keep shrinking and it's incredibly hard to get a pay raise or salary boost. Every company I work for has always dragged their feet, refusing to raise wages. I checked with coworkers who work at my ex employer, asked if there is any inflation-linked pay increases and they said no... the company is still using a 2% annual increase on wages.

Why do you think people are quitting? Nobody's going to sit there with stagnant wages. We can work 1 or 2 years and then quit, change jobs and boost our pay. That's what the corporate world has taught us to do, because that's the only way you can keep your salary up with inflation.

Nobody I know has any kind of work pension either, so there's no long-term retention mechanism.

Companies low-ball us on wages... don't offer pensions... and lay us off in a heartbeat without a second thought.

What do you think is going to happen? I will never have any loyalty to a company, because I know I'm disposable and they will fire me in a heartbeat.
 

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I think employer and employee loyalty no longer exists.
Many years ago, I worked for a large corp that started having declining revenues. They weren't on the brink of collapse or anything, in fact they were doing quite well.

To save costs, they opened parallel offices in Malaysia and China and started getting all of us (in Canada & US) to train the other people. They actually flew in a Chinese guy and made him my "buddy" for a couple weeks, so I could train him. As the training progressed, the management started coming up with a fabricated paper trail to justify layoffs, and one by one started firing EVERYONE in our Ontario office.

That same year the CEO collected near record total compensation in cash + stock. The company was very pleased with expense reduction (slashing labour), really just a gambit by the executive class to "game" the quarterly results. I think the CEO's pay was something like 200x my salary (and I'm an engineer with several degrees!).

This has been the story for the last 30 to 40 years. Extreme corporate greed, a class of MBAs and executives treating companies as get-rich schemes, a total unwillingness to pay fair wages, reliance on super cheap labour, and management treating employees as disposable.

That's why you don't have employee loyalty and that's why none of us care about the "labour shortages". If companies wanted solid domestic labour, it's very obvious how they could have had that.

@scorpion_ca is absolutely correct that this is just propaganda, as companies really just want super cheap labour.
 

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In the fight between labour and capital, labour has indeed been absolutely wrecked in recent decades (at least in Canada and the US). But even a worm will turn. The clearing price for quality labour seems to have risen significantly. But don't celebrate too early, comrades. Especially white collar types with newfound work life balance and flexibility to work remotely. Somewhere in India or Vietnam or Nigeria or elsewhere is an enterprising young person leveling up, ready to grind, and you can be sure that profit seeking capital is already out looking for ways to rub you out and find that person now that geographic distance has been made irrelevant by technology, to say nothing of the deflationary forces of AI. Lawyers, accountants, doctors, middle managers of all kinds -- except for the absolute best of the best in their field, everyone is on the clock. Sadly, that is a big part of why it is important to own equity. Noone can just work. Everyone needs a side hustle as a capital allocator.
 

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Many years ago, I worked for a large corp that started having declining revenues. They weren't on the brink of collapse or anything, in fact they were doing quite well.

To save costs, they opened parallel offices in Malaysia and China and started getting all of us (in Canada & US) to train the other people. They actually flew in a Chinese guy and made him my "buddy" for a couple weeks, so I could train him. As the training progressed, the management started coming up with a fabricated paper trail to justify layoffs, and one by one started firing EVERYONE in our Ontario office.

That same year the CEO collected near record total compensation in cash + stock. The company was very pleased with expense reduction (slashing labour), really just a gambit by the executive class to "game" the quarterly results. I think the CEO's pay was something like 200x my salary (and I'm an engineer with several degrees!).

This has been the story for the last 30 to 40 years. Extreme corporate greed, a class of MBAs and executives treating companies as get-rich schemes, a total unwillingness to pay fair wages, reliance on super cheap labour, and management treating employees as disposable.

That's why you don't have employee loyalty and that's why none of us care about the "labour shortages". If companies wanted solid domestic labour, it's very obvious how they could have had that.

@scorpion_ca is absolutely correct that this is just propaganda, as companies really just want super cheap labour.
... and who's to blame? Start from the top and work your way down with the top (tip and its cronies) having the best of excuse of them all: the need to answer to 'shareholders' with those multi-million dollar salaries. The bottom soldiers get the best treatment - a discard once used.
 

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@afulldeck It seems I hear the same complaints regardless the industry. Retail/Food/Sservice industry seem to be affected the most. Its not much different trying to find skilled candidates in the Finance/Banking industry.

@damian13ster They say a hiring manager knows within the first 15 seconds if the candidate in front of them will be hired or not. I totally agree with this statement. Attitude, character, demeanor are all worth more than tenure which is often mistaken for experience.

@Beaver101 While I agree some leaders fail to keep their staff motivated, I am not convinced its the majority. Lets not forget, the new generation of candidates entering the workforce will be future leaders themselves.
... of course, it's not the majority as it isn't the "job" of the "leaders = decision-makers" to keep their staff motivated in the first place. How about not demoralizing their staff in the first place? Why do you think the "quality" of the newer gen workers are so poor these days ... let alone being considered as future leaders themselves. I wouldn't be surprised human workers will be answering to a AI boss/bot in the near future. LMAO.
 

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From what I can tell, a big part of the labour shortage in technical sectors is directly attributable to people not doing their jobs. For some reason, companies just keep hiring more when they should be culling the dead wood.
... technical sectors such as? IT in North America or in India? I don't suppose it's in manufacturing? And even then, what kind? Automotive? Metal fabrication? ???
 

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So many work environments are steel cage matches of attrition. It's heartbreaking to think about what it's doing to those who have to work in that. Anger is a terrible disability that spreads like a virus.

We had a guy who would open a meeting by explaining how stupid someone was. He would focus on a ton of different people, over the years. I recall saying, "Hey! He is a good guy and he's on our team." The response... "Yeah, and he's dumb as F*." My gawd. lol!
... and yet who allowed/kept this guy on with this kind of language and behaviour? Your boss, ain't it? Which indicates the "type of management" there and "quality" of staffing. Maybe it's acceptable in that kind of sector or "work" environment ... and at the time.

Anyhow, I'm sure if he said so much as an "F" the first day on the job say in an office/bank, he'll be shown the door before he can return to his desk to pack.
 

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Remember when there was a big kerfluffle about the banks bringing in temporary foreign workers and requiring the staff to train them before they got laid off.

I support bringing in temporary foreign workers to fill empty jobs, but not to replace people who are already working in jobs.
 

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Remember when there was a big kerfluffle about the banks bringing in temporary foreign workers and requiring the staff to train them before they got laid off.

I support bringing in temporary foreign workers to fill empty jobs, but not to replace people who are already working in those jobs.
... not surprised it's still happening these days ... only it's behind the scenes instead of making it to the front page news.

See one member's (londoncalling?) in this thread mentioning this of which for one moment, do not disbelieve.

Worst are IT jobs where Canadian workers are enticed (with some BS) to first train offshore workers who would remain as offshore workers in the name of saving some in-country jobs (aka in "reality" full-filling some fat *** executives' bonuses). That's why you get such poor customer-service from the call-centers ... replying from another country.
 

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There are a lot of industries that will be in trouble due to labour shortages. Aviation for example will be interesting. Commercial pilot training basically ground to a halt over the last couple of years (meaning for 2 full years, the number of newly licensed pilots was a fraction of what would be normal), and companies that operate smaller planes (where airline pilots get their experience before flying bigger planes) did basically no hiring, as thousands of airline pilots were laid off during covid, and took jobs flying smaller planes. Now, airlines are just about back to pre-covid levels of flying, and I don't know where all the pilots are going to come from to staff the flights. When covid hit, a lot of older pilots close to retirement chose to retire early, and some younger pilots just quit and took up other careers.
 

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Our son is experienced and qualified in several skilled trades, but it was no thanks to the school system which told him he "wouldn't amount to anything if he didn't go to university".

In our small city, none of the high schools even had "shop" or "home economics" programs. No wonder so many people today can't cut a piece of lumber or cook a meal.

Air pilots....yea, that is a good example of how important training and experience is. You can't just hire people to fly an airplane.

Our son is certified as a heavy equipment operator. A lot of his schooling and training involved maintaining the equipment. There are a lot of grease points on an excavator.

Lots of kids would look at an excavator and think it would be cool to operate one, but they lose interest when they have to crawl around doing the necessary maintenance.

Auto mechanics......I see shops advertising for them. Service advisors.....do young people know about vehicle systems today ?

Bottom line to me.......we need to look at Germany's education system, where they start streaming kids towards "career oriented" education early in the education system.
 

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In our small city, none of the high schools even had "shop" or "home economics" programs. No wonder so many people today can't cut a piece of lumber or cook a meal.
That's not true at all. I grew up in your small city.

Have a look at this list of programs available and search for "Thames Valley".

Construction specialist programs are available at Lucas, Saunders, and Laurier.
 

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That's not true at all. I grew up in your small city.

Have a look at this list of programs available and search for "Thames Valley".

Construction specialist programs are available at Lucas, Saunders, and Laurier.
You'll find sags makes a LOT of unsubstantiated and outright false claims. When they get too ridiculous for my patience I block them for a bit.

The 6th largest city in Ontario and 15th largest in Canada, yet he calls it "small"
 

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... Anyone else in a hiring decision role that is frustrated with the lack of good candidates out there?
If you group the applicants into a group of twenty, how many would you say are:
a) stellar
b) good
c) competent
d) a disaster?


... What I don't understand is the poor quality of candidates that are seeking job ...
YMMV ... my company was happy to hire me in the early 2000's as they had gone through something around five rounds of shortlisted applicants when I applied. I'd been working for three years as a consultant so they already knew my personality, skills and work ethic. IIRC, most that were applying had misrepresented their skills. For the few will the skills needed, they preferred little to now interaction with people despite the ad and interviews highlighting it was a team job that interacted with a wide range of employees.


Cheers
 

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There are a lot of industries that will be in trouble due to labour shortages. Aviation for example will be interesting. Commercial pilot training basically ground to a halt over the last couple of years (meaning for 2 full years, the number of newly licensed pilots was a fraction of what would be normal), and companies that operate smaller planes (where airline pilots get their experience before flying bigger planes) did basically no hiring, as thousands of airline pilots were laid off during covid, and took jobs flying smaller planes. Now, airlines are just about back to pre-covid levels of flying, and I don't know where all the pilots are going to come from to staff the flights. When covid hit, a lot of older pilots close to retirement chose to retire early, and some younger pilots just quit and took up other careers.
@Fisherman30 your sector was decimated during the pandemic but I am glad that it is rebounding as expected. Many industries are scrambling to find the workers that moved on during the pandemic but this a a great example. I wonder if there was an uptick in retirements across all workplaces throughout the country which is helping to contribute to the labour shortage. A stable retirement rate is healthy as it allows for new workers to find employment. If there are too few it creates a lot of difficulty for those trying to get a start or move up in their field. I wasn't in working at the time but I have heard from older Gen Xers that said this was one of the reason they had faced barriers to advancement in their career as there were so many people just slightly older than them in senior positions.
 

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That's not true at all. I grew up in your small city.

Have a look at this list of programs available and search for "Thames Valley".

Construction specialist programs are available at Lucas, Saunders, and Laurier.
That's great, but he grew up in Woodstock, Ontario (population 30,000 at the time) so it wasn't available at the time.

He also attended high school during the PC Harris government debacle on education, which left behind a well documented shameful legacy for a lot of kids.

We moved from London to Woodstock when I transferred for work, and couldn't move back to London fast enough after we retired.
 

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The original program was replaced with a temporary program that provides short term benefit for people who are off work due to covid.

The employer pays full wages for the first 3 days and is reimbursed by the government. After that, the benefit pays $300 a week until the person returns to work.

It isn't a benefit that provides disincentives to working. At $300 a week, anyone working would be losing money on that program.
 

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In the fight between labour and capital, labour has indeed been absolutely wrecked in recent decades (at least in Canada and the US). But even a worm will turn. The clearing price for quality labour seems to have risen significantly. But don't celebrate too early, comrades. Especially white collar types with newfound work life balance and flexibility to work remotely. Somewhere in India or Vietnam or Nigeria or elsewhere is an enterprising young person leveling up, ready to grind, and you can be sure that profit seeking capital is already out looking for ways to rub you out and find that person now that geographic distance has been made irrelevant by technology, to say nothing of the deflationary forces of AI. Lawyers, accountants, doctors, middle managers of all kinds -- except for the absolute best of the best in their field, everyone is on the clock. Sadly, that is a big part of why it is important to own equity. Noone can just work. Everyone needs a side hustle as a capital allocator.
If ever there were a post worth quoting, this is it.

There is a countdown on wealth accumulation that, while unknown, can't be all that far from T0.

Carry on, wayward__son. (y)
 
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