Canadian Money Forum banner
141 - 160 of 196 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,971 Posts
Discussion Starter · #141 ·
No, it's pragmatic



No we can't.
But luck is only half the story, and it's the half you have no control over.
It's dumb to waste energy on things outside of your control.

Also as I've stated, the very title of this thread discounts the other half of success, the one that a person can actually influence. Let alone the idea of putting yourself in a position to take advantage of the luck that comes your way.

It's really a locus of control issue.

Look at the Olympics, they're all incredibly lucky and gifted, but without the hard work, they wouldn't be there. I'm not discounting luck, I just see little reason to consider it.
Your reply is fully focused on success while my previous post was exactly to remove this direct relationship. The focus should be on the infinite amount of coincidences that we've been through.

Many, many decisions aren't defined by success, it's just coincidences.

You go for a walk and you suddenly meet an old friend who's in town. He asks you if you want to go for a beer. The fact that you've stumbled upon an old friend is a pure coincidence. Your decision to go for a beer with him or not has nothing to do with success and risk management. But what if you decide to go for a beer and he talks to you about something that would change your life for the better?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,758 Posts
Your reply is fully focused on success while my previous post was exactly to remove this direct relationship. The focus should be on the infinite amount of coincidences that we've been through.

Many, many decisions aren't defined by success, it's just coincidences.

You go for a walk and you suddenly meet an old friend who's in town. He asks you if you want to go for a beer. The fact that you've stumbled upon an old friend is a pure coincidence. Your decision to go for a beer with him or not has nothing to do with success and risk management. But what if you decide to go for a beer and he talks to you about something that would change your life for the better?
You're wrong.
Your decision to have a beer has you weighing the benefits of that activity vs not partaking in that activity.

Again, there is a factor of luck, but there are a bunch of other things leading to it.

It wasn't a "pure coincidence", if you choose to go for a walk, instead of watching TV, you changed the odds of running into someone.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,971 Posts
Discussion Starter · #143 ·
You're wrong.
Your decision to have a beer has you weighing the benefits of that activity vs not partaking in that activity.

Again, there is a factor of luck, but there are a bunch of other things leading to it.

It wasn't a "pure coincidence", if you choose to go for a walk, instead of watching TV, you changed the odds of running into someone.
Wow, do you have any emotions? Or everything you do is calculated? Everything is consciously weighed?

Do you ever "feel like doing something" or I guess you always "calculate what you should do"?

How does it work when you date a girl, when you see a friend, when your kids wants you to do an activity with them?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,971 Posts
Discussion Starter · #144 ·
But I guess, as @m3s made a link with the MBTI, you must be at the extreme end of the spectrum of Judging. 100% Judging, 0% Perceiving.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,256 Posts
...Unfortunately many make important decisions before they know what maters to them or never take the time to figure it out
I agree with you there. I had a good handle on the business side but not a clue about the social aspects. DW decided to get married before I was ready, had kids before I was ready. Others were better on the social side but lacked the business acumen.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,316 Posts
Wow, do you have any emotions? Or everything you do is calculated? Everything is consciously weighed?

Do you ever "feel like doing something" or I guess you always "calculate what you should do"?
That's more MBTI Thinking vs Feeling not Judging vs Perceiving

It's not 100% one way and 0% the other. Thinkers prioritize logic but still have feelings
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,574 Posts
Some of my best decisions were impulse decisions. Some of my successes and failures were pure luck.

In the investing world.......analysis creates a diversity of opinion, which renders the choices down to impulse and hoping for good luck.

Most stocks will have some analysis as a buy, a hold, or a sell recommendation.

They all can't be right........so pick your analysis.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,971 Posts
Discussion Starter · #148 ·
That's more MBTI Thinking vs Feeling not Judging vs Perceiving

It's not 100% one way and 0% the other. Thinkers prioritize logic but still have feelings
Ah, true.

I thought about Judging vs Perceiving because Judging are people who plan everything while Perceiving are people who act spontaneously.

But Thinking vs Feeling is more accurate because it's about the decision-making process.

I guess when you are Thinking & Judging, you are a lot into calculating every single move and you see emotions and spontaneity as evil.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,446 Posts
Many, many decisions aren't defined by success, it's just coincidences.

You go for a walk and you suddenly meet an old friend who's in town. He asks you if you want to go for a beer. The fact that you've stumbled upon an old friend is a pure coincidence. Your decision to go for a beer with him or not has nothing to do with success and risk management. But what if you decide to go for a beer and he talks to you about something that would change your life for the better?
Not sure what you are getting at here other than to point out life has many events that can change your direction, for better or worse.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,971 Posts
Discussion Starter · #150 ·
Not sure what you are getting at here other than to point out life has many events that can change your direction, for better or worse.
Well, that's where I want to get, yes. :p Decisions which are neither good or bad, leading to unknown outcomes.

The disagreement is about how much of what we have become is due to those uncontrolled events vs the "controlled" events. (Even though I believe that control is an illusion)
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,446 Posts
The disagreement is about how much of what we have become is due to those uncontrolled events vs the "controlled" events. (Even though I believe that control is an illusion)
The answer will be all over the board so to speak. Some people will have very predictable lives while others will be significantly impacted by specific events (or a single event) along he way. Regardless of events, most people do have a significant level of control over how their lives will play out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,758 Posts
Wow, do you have any emotions?
Yes

Or everything you do is calculated?
Nope, not even close.

Everything is consciously weighed?
Of course not, haven't you read the research on this?

Do you ever "feel like doing something" or I guess you always "calculate what you should do"?
Uhh, if I feel like doing it, I very well might do it.
But sometimes I work to my plan irrespective of how I feel.

[/QUOTE]
How does it work when you date a girl, when you see a friend, when your kids wants you to do an activity with them?
[/QUOTE]
I decide what I want to do with the available options.
What do you do? Impulsively leap to the next shiny object?

No you look at the options and pick one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,971 Posts
Discussion Starter · #153 ·
I decide what I want to do with the available options.
What do you do? Impulsively leap to the next shiny object?

No you look at the options and pick one.
In the same post, you answer that no, everything is not calculated and that of course not, things are not consciously weighed, but then you say that you look at your options and pick one.

So... What do you define to be the process of "looking at your options" if they aren't calculated and they aren't consciously weighed?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,971 Posts
Discussion Starter · #154 · (Edited)
Regardless of events, most people do have a significant level of control over how their lives will play out.
Depends how deep you go into the coincidences of your life.

On the surface, there's coincidences and decisions. And since we make decisions, we call this "being in control".

But deep down, what's the truly conscious process of making that decision and what are the parameters of that influenced that decision? The answer is : a series of other coincidences. Deep down, how you react to every event depends on the aggregate of all the previous events you've went through. It depends how they have influenced your brain's chemical balance. It depends of your genes, from your parents. It depends of the environment in which you've lived.

So, on the surface, yes, we say that we have "control" which is healthy. But deep down, if you think of it thoroughly, it's an illusion. But a very healthy illusion.

And that's why I call it a paradox. Because without that illusion, people would think they don't need to work hard. But working hard is part of the illusion, part of the coincidences.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,446 Posts
Depends how deep you go into the coincidences of your life.

On the surface, there's coincidences and decisions. And since we make decisions, we call this "being in control".

But deep down, what's the truly conscious process of making that decision and what are the parameters of that influenced that decision? The answer is : a series of other coincidences. Deep down, how you react to every event depends on the aggregate of all the previous events you've went through. It depends how they have influenced your brain's chemical balance. It depends of your genes, from your parents. It depends of the environment in which you've lived.

So, on the surface, yes, we say that we have "control" which is healthy. But deep down, if you think of it thoroughly, it's an illusion. But a very healthy illusion.

And that's why I can it a paradox. Because without that illusion, people would think they don't need to work hard. But working hard is part of the illusion, part of the coincidences.
Yes life teaches us things and we have genetic traits. Not sure why you believe that takes away from being in control or makes it an illusion, it alters our thinking process for future decisions.

Working hard yields benefits for the vast majority of people, most know that so most do it ... that's not coincidence.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,758 Posts
In the same post, you answer that no, everything is not calculated and that of course not, things are not consciously weighed, but then you say that you look at your options and pick one.

So... What do you define to be the process of "looking at your options" if they aren't calculated and they aren't consciously weighed?
Well you cut out the "everythings", which alters the meaning.

It's not "all or nothing"
That's been my point from the beginning.
Not everything is calculated, and not everything is consciously weighed.

Sometimes I act "without thinking", sometimes I carefully consider and plan.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,971 Posts
Discussion Starter · #157 · (Edited)
Yes life teaches us things and we have genetic traits. Not sure why you believe that takes away from being in control or makes it an illusion, it alters our thinking process for future decisions.

Working hard yields benefits for the vast majority of people, most know that so most do it ... that's not coincidence.
Working hard requires willpower. Your willpower has been trained throughout your life by all the coincidences you've faced and their outcomes. Lower blood glucose affects your brain, which affects your willpower.

People who lived through positive events to which they associated a cause-effect will increase their willpower, even though those events were coincidences.

It starts with the Pygmalion effect and it grows into a self-fulfilling prophecy and Galatea effect. But there's also the Golem effect which is the opposite.

The point being that when you were born, you didn't have any beliefs as a new born. But others' actions and beliefs towards us is the start of the loop. And then there's noise introduced to that loop due to the random events that we go through. What level of willpower you had at that moment will impact your decision process and the unknown outcome of your decision will increase or decrease your willpower, and so on.

22019
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,971 Posts
Discussion Starter · #158 ·
You know why Mark Zuckerberg wears always the same clothes? Because even the smallest decision-taking that we have to do will decrease what's left in willpower when facing more important decisions. It's called "decision fatigue", "ego depletion". Which means less willpower.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,758 Posts
You know why Mark Zuckerberg wears always the same clothes? Because even the smallest decision-taking that we have to do will decrease what's left in willpower when facing more important decisions. It's called "decision fatigue", "ego depletion". Which means less willpower.
Yes, he understands the power of hard work and good decisions.
Because it isn't "all luck".

Even your own examples show how it isn't "all luck"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,971 Posts
Discussion Starter · #160 ·
Yes, he understands the power of hard work and good decisions.
Because it isn't "all luck".

Even your own examples show how it isn't "all luck"
It doesn't. You are looking at Mark Zuckerberg as where he is now and what kind of decisions he's taking now.

But you miss the point of where he comes from. The new born Zuckerberg starting with a set of genes, a specific environment and then going through a series of coincidences which shaped him.
 
141 - 160 of 196 Posts
Top