[Spidey]

I'm pretty frugal - no cell phone, driving 2003 vehicle, rarely eat out, most minimum cable and phone plane, etc. So I definitely can relate to the frugal people better than I can with the spenders. However, if your lifestyle and that of the people you care about does not improve at least somewhat with you wealth, then what is the point? Why not just stay poor?

 

[Guigz]

Increased consumption does not necessarily equate to increased happiness. If you already have all that you need, why waste money on something you don't?

I would much rather have the ability to call it quits than to be stuck on the hamster wheel of consumption. My wealthiness has no impact on my needs. I do not increase my lifestyle with increases in pay. Instead, I save an extra portion so that I may take control of my life earlier.

Instead of buying stuff, I buy time.

I do not live like a pauper, I have everything that I need and some of what I want.

If I was financially independent, I would likely adjust my lifestyle so that it matches my income (i.e., live within my means and possibly allow some inflation with rising income).

 

[Square Root]

Last few posts are insightful. I read: Don't waste money, spending money doesn't always increase happiness, as you get wealthier you might want to spend a little more. I certainly agree with these statements. My favourite comes from guigz: if you are financially independent maybe you should set your spending to your income. Bingo!! this has been my point all along. As a financially independant retiree that's what I do. i spend on things/experiences that I value the most up to my income. Quite a bit is spent on getting people to do things I don't like to do or don't know how to do. This effectively buys me time . The fact that my income is very high does not qualify me as frugal but I don't think I'm wasting money or being a spendthrift either. Each person will spend according to their tastes and utility function. Cheers.

 

[44545]

"Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." - Antoine de Saint-Exupery

The funny thing is that it's possible to survive on $30K/year, yet people are struggling on $100K+/year...

That resonates with me.

My spouse and I have excellent careers but use coupons and price matching to save 50% on our grocery bill (annualized). Saved money is a tool to fund early retirement.

EDIT - it costs $8 in ingredients to make 100 sushi rolls, at home. In a restaurant, that's a $100 meal for four people. "Frugal" can also be "fun."

http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/general-chat/193425-making-sushi-rolls-home-$8-84-new-tips-perfect-rolls.html

 

[Rusty O'Toole]

It is quite the opposite. Frugality is for the rich, not for the poor.

If you are poor it it is pointless to try and save money. Some unexpected expense always eats up anything you save. It is a much better plan to live as well as you can on what you have, and if you get an unexpected windfall, spend it fast before it gets eaten away in dribs and drabs with nothing to show for it.

This is so obvious to anyone who has been poor that it doesn't need to be explained .

On the other hand, if you are well off even to the point of owning your own home and having a decent job, you have something to lose and something to gain. Good money management pays dividends . Read The Millionaire Next Door for examples of people who live well but are careful with their money and will never be poor or without resources.

Carelessness can ruin even a multi millionaire. There are many examples of people who have earned or inherited a fortune sufficient for them to live in luxury all their lives who blew it.

For example, look up the story of Mike Tyson . He went from the housing projects, to living in a mansion, to sleeping in homeless shelters and taking handouts from street people.He made millions the hard way but blew it using the money philosophy he learned in the slums.

Mike Tyson: spending fool

http://www.earlytorise.com/the-sad-story-of-mike-tyson-a-spending-fool/

 

[Rusty O'Toole]

Another example of the frugal rich vs the spendthrift poor. Notice the shoppers in the grocery store, the obviously well off carefully weighing and examining everything in the produce section looking for the best, or least carcinogenic food. Then notice the obviously poor with their carts loaded with colorful packages of junk food guaranteed to have the least food value at the highest cost.

Or look at the post above re: making the best and tastiest Japanese food at the lowest cost. Does that strike you as the way a poor person thinks or behaves? Would you ever mistake CjOttawa for a poor person? Never in a million years would a poor person think that way, or make sushi that way.

Now that I have introduced this idea you will see examples every day. Remember, frugality is for the well off not for the poor.

 

[JustAGuy]

This is so obvious to anyone who has been poor that it doesn't need to be explained .

As someone that was able to put themselves through college while being poor, I disagree. Being frugal and using what little you have as an investment to improve your situation is always a good idea.

 

[Spudd]

I also disagree. Frugality is key when you're poor. When in university I kept a budget book, and I found it a couple of years ago. I was amazed to see I only spent ~$350/mo on everything (excluding rent, which was another $400). Well, and obviously excluding tuition/books. This allowed me to come out of university without any debt, by working full time every summer and living off the proceeds throughout the school year.

 

[blin10]

if you doing well I don't see why you shouldn't reward yourself and get something nice/expensive... sure you can save all your life and die with a ton of money, i rather enjoy life and die with not much money left... obviously there must be a balance

 

[blin10]

what you see as a waist for others it's not at all... sure it's not the best decision to get 1k/month car when you're 20, but how many times are you going to be 20 ? he (like me) might love cars, and that's one of the best feelings rolling in a brand new bmw especially when you're 20 (I did same thing)... who knows that car might encourage him to do well in life so he can get better car later... I hate people who always judge others, "oh he's in brand new bmw his credit cards probably maxed out and he's living on a credit, bla, bla, and I'm such an amazing guy rolling in 100 year old toyota corola where I don't pay anything monthly and rather invest then buy that pos bla bla"..

I think frugality is important for all types of people. You know the interesting thing that I've learned over the years, is that the people who appear the most well off cause they're flashey are usually not that well off they just have a lease on a mercedes and $50k in credit card debt. The people I know who actually are well off, well those are the guys driving the old beat up vehicles and wearing clothes until they fall apart. I met this guy who's 20 years old and drives a brand new BMW works in the same building as me. I got to chatting with him and found out he makes $18/hour in the call centre, lives with his parents and pays $1000 a month in lease payments for that car. Oh I see. There is a lesson in there for sure.

 

[Toronto.gal]

1. it costs $8 in ingredients to make 100 sushi rolls, at home.
2. "Frugal" can also be "fun."

1. How about vegetarian spring-rolls?
2. Not only fun, but educational as well!

Frugality is for all IMHO [except those who don't have enough to save obviously, and there are many such cases].

At the end of the day, no matter which adjective one uses [cheap, frugal, penny-pinching, stingy, thrifty, etc.], it's all about knowing how to manage one's money.

I get what I like & want, but only because I can! However, for me, it's more about being an informed consumer [which was not always the case], and about not overpaying. No different from buying stocks.

I'm frugal with not only my money, but my time as well, ie: I don't like to waste either & want more of both to enjoy & do important/fun things with, like meeting a friend in person instead of on FB/MSN; donating my time & money to worthwhile causes/foundations, etc.

 

[Rusty O'Toole]

As someone that was able to put themselves through college while being poor, I disagree. Being frugal and using what little you have as an investment to improve your situation is always a good idea.

You were never poor. You may not have had much money but you did not have the outlook of the poor person. You knew you were going to be well off someday and you lived accordingly.

I never considered myself poor even when I had little or no money. I knew if I did the right things and stuck to it I would get the money eventually. To a poor person in a dead end job with no hope of getting ahead, things look different. It could be that is what keeps them poor, I won't argue about that.

The points is, being careful and getting value for money can be a rewarding pastime or a horrible drudgery depending on your frame of reference. Frugality in the sense we are talking about is much more a hobby of the well off than of the poor. If you lived among the poor you know what I mean.

 

[Barwelle]

CJ! Great how-to for sushi. There is a "recipes to trade by" thread somewhere on this forum, may I suggest you post it in there? I must try this... but I think I would be the only one adventurous enough to eat it at my house. Any thoughts on how long this would keep in a fridge? It's not really something you could freeze, eh.

/end off-topic

 

[fraser]

Take care of the nickels and the dollars will take care of themselves.

Not certain if we are frugal, but we are careful. Value is important to us.

 

[Square Root]

Being able to manage you money is the key point. For most this will involve frugality but not for all. Of course we could simply define frugality as living within your means. Then we could all agree. As I have posted previously, buying nice things is not morally wrong if you can afford it.

 

[Spidey]

You were never poor. You may not have had much money but you did not have the outlook of the poor person. You knew you were going to be well off someday and you lived accordingly.

I never considered myself poor even when I had little or no money. I knew if I did the right things and stuck to it I would get the money eventually. To a poor person in a dead end job with no hope of getting ahead, things look different. It could be that is what keeps them poor, I won't argue about that.

The points is, being careful and getting value for money can be a rewarding pastime or a horrible drudgery depending on your frame of reference. Frugality in the sense we are talking about is much more a hobby of the well off than of the poor. If you lived among the poor you know what I mean.

With respect, I don't think you have ever been truly low-income or poor or I don't think you would say that frugality isn't important for the poor. I know during college, I lived on an incredibly low income - bakery and fruit purchases were from the stale dated stand, protein was often chicken backs and necks, made apple sauce instead of jam from apples I picked for free, etc. Frugality may be a hobby for the well-off but it is a necessity for the poor.

 

[Plugging Along]

Agree^. People who are poor and want to ever attempt to move into a better circumstance in life MUST be frugal. Those who are better off can afford to be less frugal, but if they are not careful, they will be in debt. Any one on debt must be frugal too.

I can say that when my spouse and I just started to make really good money, we were not frugal by any means, yet we still lived within our means, managed to save a bit, and stay out of debt. Now, we are much more frugal. I now think about value for my money and time, and how my money is spent, yet I am in abetter financial position than even before. I think it's being more frugal that has allowed this.

 

[MoneyGal]

I'm more frugal as I have more money. It is odd to me. I was just thinking about this over the past week. Right now I am making pickles. Pickles! (Pickled eggplant, actually; with baby eggplants from the stale-dated corner of the local Lebanese grocery store. Using a recipe from a library book.) This is not ever going to change for me.

 

[donald]

I agree with rusty.The truly poor(which is what class the op is ref 2)And this is key:are surrounded by uneducated,unmotivated,unsophisticated people with SMALL dreams/minds and no ambition.That is cancer.I highly doubt anybody here was subjected to that.No teachers,no morals,no role models,no father figures,no one guiding/teaching ect.

This in turn makes life:Scary,stressful,embarrassing,demoralizing,and difficult(every single day)So any money the poor recieve is spent escaping Pain!There is a difference between a ''starving student" and the "truly" poor-frugality,never in a poor persons make-up-Survival and escaping pain.

 

[Plugging Along]

Are we mixing up with 'truly poor' in terms of definitions with a mindset riddle with many assumptions vs 'poor' being someone who doesn't have money.

I always looked at being poor as someone who doesn't have money as my definition.

Sure those who don't know better, have No teachers,no morals,no role models,no father figures,no one guiding/teaching ect.etc will mostly likely be poor. This is a bigger issue than what I think the OP was asking.

BTW. Should they be frugal too, absolutely, do they have the desire or the know how, maybe now. That's a different question altogether.

I interpretted the question to be does someone who doesn't have money need to be more frugal than some one who does.

Answer - Yes, the need is there, because they have less to work with

Q2. Does a person with a lot more money still need to be frugal.

Answer - No, the need isnt there as much, but they still need to live within their means

Q3. Can a person with a lot more money be frugal.
Answer - Sure, all people should be frugal, be the need is lessened as you have more.

This lead to generally, as you have more, it's partially because of what got you there, for many frugality and smart spending. So why change it?