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The thing that makes me laugh is that usually... you need USD to buy BTC and tthen BTC to buy Altcoins and then you need to transfer the Alts back to BTC and then back to USD so you can actually buy something in the real world.
Except that's not true.

I've earned coins for doing stuff online, then purchased items with those coins.

No dollars (US or Canadian) ever traded hands.

It's perfectly possible to sell an online service in crypto, and pay your hosting bills in crypto.
 

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I don't agree with this premise.
How is ethereum, a globally distributed computer, trying to be a commodity?
The vast majority of the crypto tokens are ERC-20 tokens that require ETH "gas" for each transaction. Some refer to ETH as digital oil

If BTC is like a digital store of value than ETH is like digital commodity imo. Same for the few other smart contract networks
 

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The vast majority of the crypto tokens are ERC-20 tokens that require ETH "gas" for each transaction. Some refer to ETH as digital oil

If BTC is like a digital store of value than ETH is like digital commodity imo. Same for the few other smart contract networks
Eth is the "digital oil" that makes the eth network run.
 

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Eth is the "digital oil" that makes the eth network run.
Ethereum network (eth is the token) The thousands of ERC-20 tokens on the ethereum network pay for transactions in eth

Cardano network (ada) will let tokens pay for transactions in their own tokens and nodes will earn those tokens or convert them

Not sure if the oil analogy works when there are a few separate smart contract networks but they are more like a commodity than a currency
 

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Ethereum network (eth is the token) The thousands of ERC-20 tokens on the ethereum network pay for transactions in eth

Cardano network (ada) will let tokens pay for transactions in their own tokens and nodes will earn those tokens or convert them

Not sure if the oil analogy works when there are a few separate smart contract networks but they are more like a commodity than a currency
The distinction between a commodity and currency is really just the convenience.
Just like the idea that Roman soldiers were paid in salt. It was both a commodity and a currency. Then also remember even modern currencies were just conveneint representations of an underlying commodity, ie US dollars were gold.

In the case of crypto currency such a distinction isn't really needed, since the commodity functions just fine as a currency. They don't have the practical problems of trading bags of salt, like they would have had in the roman times.


Yes I'm aware that the Roman salt-salary may not be completely true, but it's a convenient example.
 

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Some say Cardano is a commodity, currency and store-of-value as its supply is finite unlike Ethereum

Ethereum could become deflationary with incoming changes that removes the fees paid from circulation
 

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USD is king until it isn't. The US is in a debt spiral and the only way to keep the party going is to print more USD. Few have realized this while many give it little thought. There is no reason something better can't replace it
The Fed is public enemy number one. The plandemic is to kill the economy make us debt slaves so the fed can own it all.
 

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Some say Cardano is a commodity, currency and store-of-value as its supply is finite unlike Ethereum

Ethereum could become deflationary with incoming changes that removes the fees paid from circulation
I think finite supply is shortsighted planned obsolescence.
 

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I agree that 1% is a good speculative hold in your play money part of the portfolio.nit is ann controlled value exchange mechanism. As such, it appeals to renegades and crooks. But many pump and dump stock holders made out just fine on the upslope. Just try to watch for a final turn for the worse
,
 

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I still think 1% is harmless in the big scheme of things (and I'm doing some gambling with roughly 1%)

The people who are going to run into problems are those who have bought into the crypto bull**** and have the majority of their portfolio in it, or entirely in this stuff. IMO those people have fallen for a massive scam (pump & dump controlled by a small number of manipulators) and are playing with fire. They may get out at a profit, but I think it's more likely they will suffer losses of epic proportions.

US stock regulation has become much stronger over the last few decades, and insider trading and pump & dump scams have mostly been eradicated, at least compared to what used to be the norm in the early 1900s. Of course there are still crooked penny stocks here and there but stocks have become much less attractive to scam artists and I think it's important to realize this.

Meanwhile:

Crypto koins have given crooked operators an entirely new, unregulated playground. They can also market directly to the suckers using social media, and they can anonymously play their side of it, even from foreign countries. They are untouchable by the law, especially if they are foreign operators.

My gut instinct tells me it's a GIANT scam. Not the actual technology of course, but the games and pump & dump being played with the price, and the large holders who manipulate perceptions using social media. Nobody in their right mind would invest significant amounts of money into such a non-transparent, unregulated system.
 

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I still think 1% is harmless in the big scheme of things (and I'm doing some gambling with roughly 1%)

The people who are going to run into problems are those who have bought into the crypto bull**** and have the majority of their portfolio in it, or entirely in this stuff. IMO those people have fallen for a massive scam (pump & dump controlled by a small number of manipulators) and are playing with fire. They may get out at a profit, but I think it's more likely they will suffer losses of epic proportions.

US stock regulation has become much stronger over the last few decades, and insider trading and pump & dump scams have mostly been eradicated, at least compared to what used to be the norm in the early 1900s. Of course there are still crooked penny stocks here and there but stocks have become much less attractive to scam artists and I think it's important to realize this.

Meanwhile:

Crypto koins have given crooked operators an entirely new, unregulated playground. They can also market directly to the suckers using social media, and they can anonymously play their side of it, even from foreign countries. They are untouchable by the law, especially if they are foreign operators.

My gut instinct tells me it's a GIANT scam. Not the actual technology of course, but the games and pump & dump being played with the price, and the large holders who manipulate perceptions using social media. Nobody in their right mind would invest significant amounts of money into such a non-transparent, unregulated system.
I think most crypto is nearly perfectly transparent and completely regulated. It's the activities around it that aren't.
It's like blaming tulips for the tulipmania.
 

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I think most crypto is nearly perfectly transparent and completely regulated. It's the activities around it that aren't.
It's like blaming tulips for the tulipmania.
Blame the tulips or tulip-hockers, whatever. What I'm complaining about is that just about every person who's marketing and pushing crypto assets (including Elon Musk and the hedge funds which now endorse them) come across like con artists.
 

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Blame the tulips or tulip-hockers, whatever. What I'm complaining about is that just about every person who's marketing and pushing crypto assets (including Elon Musk and the hedge funds which now endorse them) come across like con artists.
Yeah, lots of them are.
But I lived through .com, I'll be fine through this too.

Buffet gave advice long ago, invest in what you understand.
If I don't understand how an investment works, I'm not buying.

Also I prefer to invest in useful stuff, I love the concept of an agricultural ETF, bought some COW the day I heard of it.

Crypto is interesting, just not an investment.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
Thanks for all the thought-provoking discussion. I agree with most of the sentiments shared already. I think blockchain is very useful technology, hampered somewhat by concerns over energy consumption. I only had Bitcoin and Etherium in mind (would have been nice if I had paid attention to Dogecoin), but all of it is super speculative. There's no basis for any of the valuations. If anything, the right time to buy is probably after the recent runup. One day these might retain some value (or get wiped out completely) but not today with its relatively low uptake (though I saw some post title about renting an apartment using Eth).

I think some kind of digital currency is going to become standard, but we're a ways off. Different countries will probably create their own, and by that time it'll be more of a replacement for physical cash than some globally unifying currency.

I guess I'm struggling with whether 1% of anything makes any real difference. I mean, I guess you'd really be gambling on whether something ends up jumping 10 times before it's really substantial, and I don't have a track record of being able to pick those (except after the fact ;).

I think I'll look into some of those blockchain ETFs. I had looked into HIVE a couple years ago, didn't end up buying at the time (too bad). They focus on mining so, maybe too tied to specific coins and not just the tech.
 

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(though I saw some post title about renting an apartment using Eth)
I started that thread. I was fooling around.

I like the blockchain technology and I see value. I invested in blockchain. But not in cryptocurrencies. So I only have indirect exposure to cryptocurrencies due to the correlation of blockchain and crypto.

I'm still trying to figure out how crypto could work. How a wide adoption would unfold.

To be able to use it as a currency for transactions, it would have to be less volatile. To make it less volatile, I've heard of strategies to tie it to another currency/commodity/etc, but I don't like that idea because I think it should not be artificially stabilized. Unless you tie it to something like the global world's GDP? (I'm no economist) Another way to stabilize its volatile would be to have a wider adoption, but then it's the chicken or the egg problem.
 

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I started that thread. I was fooling around.

I like the blockchain technology and I see value. I invested in blockchain. But not in cryptocurrencies. So I only have indirect exposure to cryptocurrencies due to the correlation of blockchain and crypto.

I'm still trying to figure out how crypto could work. How a wide adoption would unfold.

To be able to use it as a currency for transactions, it would have to be less volatile. To make it less volatile, I've heard of strategies to tie it to another currency/commodity/etc, but I don't like that idea because I think it should not be artificially stabilized. Unless you tie it to something like the global world's GDP? (I'm no economist) Another way to stabilize its volatile would be to have a wider adoption, but then it's the chicken or the egg problem.
There are stablecoins.

The thing is when there is more solid agreement on value the volitility will drop.
The reason there is so much volatility is there is little agreement on the actual value.
 

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I don't see much harm in anything in your portfolio being 1%, even cash, if you think that works for you.

Going all-in on any crypto would likely be a mistake. Same with all cash. Just me :)
 

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There are stablecoins.
What I read is that stable coins are either commodity-backed, fiat-backed, crypto-backed, so they are simply "stabilized" artificially through correlation with other assets, so they are not stand-alone. You don't get a fully independent global currency with those artificial techniques, in my opinion.

Then there's the seigniorage-style which is the equivalent to printing or destroying money in order to stabilize its value.
 

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Another bitcoin exchange goes down in Turkey and the CEO disappears with $2 billion dollars of customers.

It reminds of Quadringa and all the other bogus exchanges and companies.

Oh no, I sent lots of money to some guy on the internet and HE STOLE IT.
 
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