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Hmm, I am pretty sure if CEO of McDonalds worked for free and gave all his earnings to workers, they would get less than 8$/YEAR extra.

CEO pay doesn't look right, but it is not a solution to worker salaries
Canada Emergency Wage Subsidy apparently means Canada Emergency CEO Bonus?

Why am I paying for this "I don't have a monetary policy" government. Meanwhile they convince the senior citizens it's all good news for GICs
 

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Discussion Starter · #203 · (Edited)
Financially, CEO compensation may not significantly move the needle on a company's bottom line but the message it sends to taxpayers, customers, shareholders and employees is that the system is abusive, even if it is not. It is no different, when our elected officials implement double digit pay raises and then raise minimum wage a few percent. Our company was able to avoid layoffs because of CEWS. We took the approach that if we let workers go they may not be there when it was time to ramp up. Management agreed to a wage freeze and even indicated they would take a cut in lieu of layoffs of management staff. They felt it was better to make less than have an increased workload during a very tumultuous time.
 

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No argument there at all.
The problem is when the 'message', 'virtue signaling' is distracting from pursuing actual solutions to actual problems. Let alone when 'solutions' introduced to perceived problems is detrimental and making actual problems worse
 

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Former Nutrien Ltd. CEO Chuck Magro made roughly $16.4 million, setting him up as the 11th highest paid CEO in the country.
BS.
In 2020 over 65 CEO's in the US made over $25M, Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

I doubt $16.4 even gets you into the top 100.

But yes, I'd expect you'd have to pay quite a bit to get someone with his experience, being CEO of Nutrien is kind of a big deal.
He's also on the board of a number of organizations, I imagine he's an excellent pick for his new position at Corteva.
 

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BS.
In 2020 over 65 CEO's in the US made over $25M, Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

I doubt $16.4 even gets you into the top 100.

But yes, I'd expect you'd have to pay quite a bit to get someone with his experience, being CEO of Nutrien is kind of a big deal.
He's also on the board of a number of organizations, I imagine he's an excellent pick for his new position at Corteva.
Perhaps he meant 11th in Canada.
 

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Then perhaps he should be talking about CEOs of Canadian Companies?
Pulling up some the CEO of a US company really confuses the issue.
Wikipedia:
"Nutrien is a Canadian fertilizer company based in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan. It is the largest producer of potash and the third largest producer of nitrogen fertilizer in the world. It has 1,500 retail stores and more than 23,100 employees. Wikipedia
Stock price: NTR (TSE) $89.32 -1.93 (-2.12%)
Jan 5, 4:00 p.m. EST - Disclaimer
CEO: Mayo Schmidt (Apr 2021–)
Headquarters: Saskatoon
Number of employees: 23,100 (2020)
Founded: January 1, 2018"
 

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Little problem in society with paying a baseball player or other professional athlete or entertainer $25M a year, but pay a CEO of a company of large and complex company of global economic and fundamental agricultural importance with tens of thousands of employees $15M, and then it is the evils of capitalism. Sheesh. The developed world should be quite thankful of Nutrien and their CEO who kept fertilizer production going despite economic sanctions on countries like Belarus which forcefully hijacked a plane last year to further enable its corruption. The company went up in value $25B over the last year and will likely have $3-4 billion in net profits. $15M for keeping the course correct seems like not a big deal to me at all.
 

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Wikipedia:
"Nutrien is a Canadian fertilizer company based in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan. It is the largest producer of potash and the third largest producer of nitrogen fertilizer in the world. It has 1,500 retail stores and more than 23,100 employees. Wikipedia
Stock price: NTR (TSE) $89.32 -1.93 (-2.12%)
Jan 5, 4:00 p.m. EST - Disclaimer
CEO: Mayo Schmidt (Apr 2021–)
Headquarters: Saskatoon
Number of employees: 23,100 (2020)
Founded: January 1, 2018"
Kind of irrelevant isn't it?
Ukraniandude specifically named Chuck Magro, the CEO of Corteva Agriscience.
He didn't mention Mayo Schmidt (who isn't the CEO of Nutrien either)

Looking into it, apparently he was looking at 2020 salaries when Magro was actually the CEO of Nutrien, and was among the higher paid CEOs.

My mistake, I assumed a thread about CEO salaries in Jan 2022 would be focused on 2021 salaries.
This is what happens when people spout older facts which may be hard to find without a usable reference.
 

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Little problem in society with paying a baseball player or other professional athlete or entertainer $25M a year, but pay a CEO of a company of large and complex company
Because you don't even need a CEO to successfully run a company, but you need baseball players to play baseball. And anyways I don't agree with the salary of athletes either.
 

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Because you don't even need a CEO to successfully run a company, but you need baseball players to play baseball. And anyways I don't agree with the salary of athletes either.
There is a long and distinguished list of CEOs whose policies and decisions, or lack thereof, ran companies into the ground, either slowly or quickly. Poor capital allocation is at the top of the list and CEOs have near full control over it. I'm sure the shareholders of Rogers, Blackberry, Nortel, and other stagnating or trashed Canadian giants wish their CEOs did a better job and maybe had a few years of $15M+ salary as a reward.
 

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There is a long and distinguished list of CEOs whose policies and decisions, or lack thereof, ran companies into the ground, either slowly or quickly. Poor capital allocation is at the top of the list and CEOs have near full control over it. I'm sure the shareholders of Rogers, Blackberry, Nortel, and other stagnating or trashed Canadian giants wish their CEOs did a better job and maybe had a few years of $15M+ salary as a reward.
The success of a company is not a one-man show, that's why you don't even need a CEO to successfully run a company. And when there's a CEO, since it's not a one-man show, that's why the CEO doesn't deserve a pay of a few million dollars a year.

Prime Minister's salary... less than a million.
Salary of a surgeon saving lives daily... less than a million.

What's so special and unique about a CEO or an athlete justifying multimillions in annual salary?
 

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The success of a company is not a one-man show, that's why you don't even need a CEO to successfully run a company. And when there's a CEO, since it's not a one-man show, that's why the CEO doesn't deserve a pay of a few million dollars a year.

Prime Minister's salary... less than a million.
Salary of a surgeon saving lives daily... less than a million.

What's so special and unique about a CEO or an athlete justifying multimillions in annual salary?
Who says they don't deserve? It is literally up to the shareholders to pay the CEO whatever they want. Much like it is up to a professional sports team owners to pay their players whatever they want. I see it as quite deserved. Surgeons are quite talented, yes, and save lives. A major CEO is responsible for tens of thousands of workers and their families on a daily basis. And they have a lot less job security. And, I would bet they work much longer hours too and have a much lower quality of life.

I'm sure there is an upper bound to reasonableness, but it's not $1M, especially for a $100+ billion dollar company. $100M is probably excessive. $10-20M? Not so much. I've been investing a long time and seen what crappy CEOs can do to a business. I'd rather pay a reasonable amount, thank you very much. The CEOs that are making $1M a year in smaller companies do not compare.

If you took $10,000,000 of salary away from a CEO and distributed 100% of it to 20,000 workers, it would amount to $500 each. I'd rather pay a CEO for keeping them employed rather than risking a worse outcome.
 

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I'm sure there is an upper bound to reasonableness, but it's not $1M, especially for a $100+ billion dollar company. $100M is probably excessive. $10-20M? Not so much. I've been investing a long time and seen what crappy CEOs can do to a business. I'd rather pay a reasonable amount, thank you very much.
Here's a corollary of an important investment question:
Can you identify in advance which CEOs will be good managers and allocators of capital?

If you can, why do the crappy CEOs (Rogers, Blackberry, Nortel from your list) still get paid eight figures?

If you can't, why do any of them get up front pay packages for eight figures?
 

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Yes, sure, you can't 100% predict and guarantee endless 100%+ annual returns by giving some dude $10M a year to work. No guarantee that paying a ball player $30M wins you the world series either, or a soccer player $50M+. But across the industry, it is pretty clear that good pay is necessary to keep top talent running large complex companies which underpin our economy. The pay and the opportunity is just fine with me if it is working; it is a competitive landscape, and top talent can go elsewhere, including into private equity, private companies, or other areas out of sight. And it is pretty clearly not $1M a year or less to me for a large company, and especially when the pay is mostly share based.

I'm more than happy to keep paying Entwistle a big salary at Telus - he went into retirement and the company started doing worse almost immediately under his replacement, Rogers-like if you will, but fortunately was enticed out of retirement to the benefit of all. Definitely a special CEO. Rogers CEO should have been fired a long time ago, but then again, I don't own any shares either, so there you go. I was not involved in paying him a big salary for a long time. Nor Blackberry. Nor Nortel. I would take a $500 pay cut for a CEO who could keep the company growing and being successful, especially if my shares were going up as fast or faster.

You are welcome for my alternate and non-mainstream perspective on the situation.
 

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The success of a company is not a one-man show, that's why you don't even need a CEO to successfully run a company.
Yes you do. They might have a different job title, but you need one.

And when there's a CEO, since it's not a one-man show, that's why the CEO doesn't deserve a pay of a few million dollars a year.
It matters, I think choosing and guiding a company can create tremendous value.
I'm glad to pay Tim Cook an absolutely astonishing level of compensation, because under his watch Apple did well.
Maybe it's due to the rest of the team, I don't really care.

What's so special and unique about a CEO or an athlete justifying multimillions in annual salary?
Nothing, they negotiated their compensation with their employer, it's between them.
Unless you're paying the salary it isn't any of your business.

It isn't like it's your money, so you rightly don't get a vote.
 

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A major CEO is responsible for tens of thousands of workers and their families on a daily basis.
They are not. You put CEOs on a pedestal. Again, successfully running a company is a team-work, not a one-man show.

Mechanistic organizations aren't the only way to go. There's also organic organizations.

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You can also simply replace the CEO by a management committee.
 
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